Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Alexa

Status
Not open for further replies.
I heard the dogpile state the "shipping" Alexa's are in as well. "Sorry, nothing really works yet so you need to record HD-SDI out to a $150,000 recorder. "

This is so ass-backwards. I remember reading an interview Bravin did just a few months ago somewhere how he said ARRI was so much better at manufacturing and making stable solid products and would never release half-working cameras to start like RED did. And now they are sending out prototype cameras and calling them production cameras. At least when Jim sent out the first 100 cameras he sat every single customer down and told them they were beta cameras and he would offer them more money than they paid plus airfare if they wanted to walk away.

I can only imagine how much money and public abuse Jim has taken over NOT releasing Epic early till the bugs are fixed, and at the same time ARRI is releasing super-buggy "production cameras" , spearheaded by Bravin who nothing personal, reminds me of one of those back-alley used car salesmen.

O how the world has turned upside down in such little time.
 
Phil Jordan said:
The dirty secret is that there are two owners of Arri that haven't spoken in 25 years. There are two camps at Arri and you are either with one side or the other. It would make for a great movie. There is so much discord at Arri with the owners that it affects everything they do, or do not do. Ask around, it is fascinating.
Click to expand...


I wonder which half hired Bravin? Or if he just snuck in there under the radar while the owners where busy fighting with each other :smash:

I really don't mean this to be a bashing session. I just used to think of ARRI as one of the good guys. Hell I even used to wear a well-worn ARRI shirt on every single set I worked on, every single day, even if it wasn't an Arri show!

Not anymore.
 
I just hope that Michael answers the questions... since he is the one that posted the remarks on CML.

Jim
 
Also Alexa wants to have 3D productions


A video from preparation of Pace 3D rig with ALEXA for Scorsese/Richardson's new project Hugo Cabret.
 
Red's marketing approach was always alien to me. I'm not really into military designs, nor are skulls or metal spiders my taste but I always had a the feeling that that the over-all picture was and is right. I like the personal approach, the reduser forum (what a informative and noisy place, lol), the products, even the "beta-ness" of the program - I like the idea of an unknown underdog becoming a worldwide player, kind of a fairy tale (it's the biggest challenge to write a new, convincing chapter in this tale) in short: the lived American Dream.

This "new" marketing that is loud, colourful, playful, responsive, sometimes even agressive and very often the opposite to humble does fit Red very well but surely not Arnold & Richter, a veteran manufacturer in this industry with its roots in Munich, Bavaria. Arri is neither an underdog, nor a typical example of the American Dream. I never understood why on earth they copied Red's marketing machine and painted it blue. Personally I prefer the Bavarian engineers with their thick German accent and their stiff phrasing when it comes to PR. Much more convincing.

Globalisation does only work well together with localisation - I hope that they will find their way back to their roots. Arri is a wonderful manufacturer for cine gear and I'm sure Alexa is a great camera.

It would be better for Red's reputation in the industry if people in this forum would be more humble and forgiving when it comes to competitors. The RedOne has proved it self many, many times, the new evolution MX is out in the right time - it's time to be generous regarding Arri.

Hans
 
Phil Jordan said:
... I can think of 7000 Red cameras that are shooting every day with Redcode.
Click to expand...

Phil, I sincerely doubt you can think of 7000 R1's that shoot everyday. I'm sure you don't know 1000 R1 owners or of 1000 R1's working everyday. It is these kinds of exaggerations that get people nowhere...

2nd - The R1 IS NOT BULLETPROOF. While the R1 is a great, light weight, high quality, bad ass camera system - IT IS NOT BULLETPROOF. It has faults (like any other camera system), it is "a computer with a lens on it"... Too easily, this camera can "break down" requiring to be sent in.
I'm sorry, but there isn't a "bulletproof" camera system. Period.

3rd - Is Bravin hurting ARRI or the Alexa? Personally, there isn't a man alive (or dead) that could sway my opinion of the high quality camera systems ARRI has contributed to the industry. I haven't ever understood the hype behind the Alexa (except in television production, maybe commercials). Of course, I really don't understand the F35 and the Nemesis, er, I mean Genesis... It seems the big boys don't do digital well... Have you ever worked with these bullshit systems?! Aside from RED, other digital camera systems really blow and push some to move away and back to the analog...
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
This "new" marketing that is loud, colourful, playful, responsive, sometimes even agressive and very often the opposite to humble does fit Red very well but surely not Arnold & Richter, a veteran manufacturer in this industry with its roots in Munich, Bavaria. Arri is neither an underdog, nor a typical example of the American Dream. I never understood why on earth they copied Red's marketing machine and painted it blue.
Click to expand...

Spot on post Hans. Arri should of changed it's name if they were going to play this game so poorly.

It is amazing how fast information travels now, and how many people pay attention to these things. I just received a link to this post passed forward from one of the biggest directors on the planet; a director I didn't even know knew what an Alexa or a RED was. I sure do hope ARRI is listening.
 
Shawn Booth said:
Phil, I sincerely doubt you can think of 7000 R1's that shoot everyday. I'm sure you don't know 1000 R1 owners or of 1000 R1's working everyday. It is these kinds of exaggerations that get people nowhere...

2nd - The R1 IS NOT BULLETPROOF. While the R1 is a great, light weight, high quality, bad ass camera system - IT IS NOT BULLETPROOF. It has faults (like any other camera system), it is "a computer with a lens on it"... Too easily, this camera can "break down" requiring to be sent in.
I'm sorry, but there isn't a "bulletproof" camera system. Period.

3rd - Is Bravin hurting ARRI or the Alexa? Personally, there isn't a man alive (or dead) that could sway my opinion of the high quality camera systems ARRI has contributed to the industry. I haven't ever understood the hype behind the Alexa (except in television production, maybe commercials). Of course, I really don't understand the F35 and the Nemesis, er, I mean Genesis... It seems the big boys don't do digital well... Have you ever worked with these bullshit systems?! Aside from RED, other digital camera systems really blow and push some to move away and back to the analog...
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I don't know exactly how many Red Ones are working every day but I do know that there are a lot more working than shooting Arriraw. Do you believe that? Alexa can't be compared to Red. It can be compared to an F35 or Genesis. They are full frame sensor 1080P cameras. Bravin's presentation to say that Arriraw matters in BS to me and to say that Redcode is not good is an insult to Red and Graeme. 1080P is a computer standard and not cinema. Red has finally given us a real film alternative and these others that try to say that 1080p is good enough is just bullshit. What part of this do you disagree with?
 
Audi vs BMW. Ford vs Audi (what?). It's just marketing. The proof will be in the pudding. The camera did work long enough for Roger Deakins to test and like. That's a start. Soon I will be renting both (still waiting for my last two MX upgrades). Hopefully they will both work.

Just cameras.

Robert Torrance
Robert Torrance Camera
Burbank, CA
 
Grady Wilson said:
You are a big man Jim to be able to say that after all the not so nice things Bravin is going around saying. Did you catch this post he made on CML a few days ago? there are so many underhanded cuts against RED in there it would make my blood boil if I was you.

"We have been offering uncompressed raw with ARRIRAW for 5 years, many people have chosen it. Not by seeing a screening of demo material on a morekay projector in a controlled environment but by shooting tests and taking it through post. Since it doesn't need to be uncompressed and then debayered its fast to work with and now can be debayered in realtime in a GPU, no "rocket" science no guessing about compressed vs uncompressed, no proprietary hardware needed in post, simple. For complicated EFX wider exposure range and maximum color correction range, NOTHING on the market beats it, (if you have the budget for ARRIRAW recording devices), but as less expensive ARRIRAW recorders come on line it will no longer be a budget issue. Um... users say this so its not OUR spin."

Sorry, I know I just did the opposite of what you asked for. It's hard not to take things personally after one of my favorite companies for the last 20 years hired someone that acts like they are in junior high school.
Click to expand...

I don't see where he is attacking RED personally? Or being rude in any way?

All he's saying is that people have chosen their format by testing it themselves - not by just watching the material. That they (ARRI) believe uncompressed is better then compressed (which is what they feel and in some facts they're right) and that if you can afford it, you should shoot on ARRIRAW - BUT that cheaper solutions will come.

Come on! Stop with your childish assumptions guys. He's at ARRI he should believe in his product.

As for Alexa - I've heard good things about it, that people are over the moon of it. I don't know and I will judge when I see it, but I also know that I most probably will like Epic more.

EDIT: Ohh sorry I skimmed and missed - no "rocket" science - Hahahaha is that what got you stuck up on him hahaha. I think it's a witty, funny remark hahaha
 
Fredrik Callinggard said:
I don't see where he is attacking RED personally? Or being rude in any way?

All he's saying is that people have chosen their format by testing it themselves - not by just watching the material. That they (ARRI) believe uncompressed is better then compressed (which is what they feel and in some facts they're right) and that if you can afford it, you should shoot on ARRIRAW - BUT that cheaper solutions will come.

Come on! Stop with your childish assumptions guys. He's at ARRI he should believe in his product.

As for Alexa - I've heard good things about it, that people are over the moon of it. I don't know and I will judge when I see it, but I also know that I most probably will like Epic more.
Click to expand...

You may be right but I have heard just the opposite. One that has one says it is a joke and should never have been released this soon and is not MX competition. It is F35 competition 6 months from now when they get the program together.
 
Fredrik Callinggard said:
I don't see where he is attacking RED personally? Or being rude in any way?
Click to expand...

He is implying that Rocket is redundant, and ARRIRAW can be debayered real-time simply on GPUs instead. So, ARRIRAW can be real-time debayered on <$500 GPUs whereas REDCODE requires a $5000 "proprietary hardware".

If it is true, that ARRIRAW can be real-time debayered at full res on a GPU, we have to admit that is a major win for Arri. If it is really true.

Of course, there's no doubt that REDCODE could be debayered using GPUs too. The RED SDKs are there, Nvidia's CUDA is there, ATI's Stream is there, not to mention OpenCL or DirectCompute 11. All it needs is a software developer to get to work. After all, a Radeon HD 5970 is theoretically something like 30-40x as powerful as the highest end CPU, and we have seen upto 100x acceleration over CPU in certain parallelized apps. I am not sure if it will be as seamless as RED Rocket, but it will certainly make an impact.

Another thing, 2.9K of ARRIRAW is debayered, while REDCODE is more like 4K-5K. A hell of a lot more image to debayer.

Overall, a lot of empty talk going on there. But it would be great to see debayering done on GPUs.
 
Shawn Booth said:
Phil, I sincerely doubt you can think of 7000 R1's that shoot everyday. I'm sure you don't know 1000 R1 owners or of 1000 R1's working everyday. It is these kinds of exaggerations that get people nowhere...

2nd - The R1 IS NOT BULLETPROOF. While the R1 is a great, light weight, high quality, bad ass camera system - IT IS NOT BULLETPROOF. It has faults (like any other camera system), it is "a computer with a lens on it"... Too easily, this camera can "break down" requiring to be sent in.
I'm sorry, but there isn't a "bulletproof" camera system. Period.

3rd - Is Bravin hurting ARRI or the Alexa? Personally, there isn't a man alive (or dead) that could sway my opinion of the high quality camera systems ARRI has contributed to the industry. I haven't ever understood the hype behind the Alexa (except in television production, maybe commercials). Of course, I really don't understand the F35 and the Nemesis, er, I mean Genesis... It seems the big boys don't do digital well... Have you ever worked with these bullshit systems?! Aside from RED, other digital camera systems really blow and push some to move away and back to the analog...
Click to expand...

Shawn... with regards to #2, I have to ask you what you are referring to. While we have acknowledged along the way many problems, we now are getting very few cameras back with issues. What specifically are you talking about?

We recently had a rental company tell us that the RED ONE M-X was the least problematic camera they had... and the easiest to service. I really am curious what you are talking about.

Jim
 
The most telling part of Michael's CML post is his claim that many have used Arriraw over the last 5 years. I too am very curious what projects were shot on Arriraw. Michael's credibility rests on these projects. Let's hear them.
 
Grady Wilson said:
"We have been offering uncompressed raw with ARRIRAW for 5 years, many people have chosen it. Not by seeing a screening of demo material on a morekay projector in a controlled environment but by shooting tests and taking it through post. Since it doesn't need to be uncompressed and then debayered its fast to work with and now can be debayered in realtime in a GPU, no "rocket" science no guessing about compressed vs uncompressed, no proprietary hardware needed in post, simple. For complicated EFX wider exposure range and maximum color correction range, NOTHING on the market beats it, (if you have the budget for ARRIRAW recording devices), but as less expensive ARRIRAW recorders come on line it will no longer be a budget issue. Um... users say this so its not OUR spin."
Click to expand...

How can this be real?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top