Aha says the tick tock man, time to deliver to the client!

[Wade McDonald]

Wade,
all I was suggesting was that the Firewire equipped deck would be the best way to transfer DVCPro HD material (or any DV format material for that matter) into FCP for Native codec editing. But as you said, the deck was not available to you at the time. Going via HD-SDI will always involve un-concatenated scaling, as HD-SDI only carries square pixels. I would see a possible benefit in capturing HD-SDI if you were capturing uncompressed, and laying off to a full rater format like HDCam SR. It just seems to me not the best way to go if you are scaling back down to 960 on capture.

I always try and preserve media in its native format where possible. Even when doing DV edits I work Firewire DV throughout, then convert the timeline to 10 bit un-compressed, render all, then lay off to Digi.

Cool. I didn't know that! Cheers!

 

[Rob Lohman]

That's correct Nick!

 

[tj williams]

regarding delivery of 108024DVCProHD

regarding delivery of 108024DVCProHD

NICK:
"Going back to your original post, the easiest solution would appear to be, as you said, converting all rushes to DVCProHD (about a minute and a half per GB for 1080p24) so that you can give somebody a drive of reasonable size and affordability with a format on it that they are familiar with and can use immediately. If they are editing on Avid, you could convert to DNxHD (220Mb/s for 10-bit, so about twice the data rate of DVCProHD, but still perfectly feasible)."

Hi NIck I just talked to a pretty experienced software engineer with quite a lot of experience in codecs. Talking about 2K RED RAW being converted by my computer into 1080 24P or 720 24P New duo with a gig type vanilla box. His estimate was about 4 hours per hour on 1080 and 1.5 to 2hr on 720

So if I come home and have the rendering started after dinner at 7PM then it will be ready to deliver the 200 minutes in about 13hours of rendering so 8am the next morning I'm off to Fedex.

Clearly I won't be posting here on that computer so I'd better consider it a one use only machine!

All The Best,

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Freelance workflow

Freelance workflow

Freelance RedOne owner/ops must be able to generate a ready to use version of the shot footage quickly and easily to book rental days for the camera. I am in total agreement with this assertion and have posted on the topic at least a dozen times on DVXuser, DVinfo and Reduser. At this time there is no definitive "best practices" workflow since RedCine and RedCode are still in development and licensing of the tech is as yet undetermined. Not the kind of guy that can just wait and see what happens, I know the feeling.

My brilliant (or perhaps colossally stupid) idea is this: I am buying a van and stuffing it with a fast computer, hard drive arrays, monitors and the lot so I can process a one light grade via RedCine into the format requested by the producer on (or near) set. I plan to get 3 RedDrive mags so I can rotate them regularly throughout the day into the van. I will run a copy (or 2) of the RedCode RAW original data onto my storage system and hold it for 30 days as part of my day rate (longer for an extra charge). I will bill the client for hard drives that they can walk away with (if I can process the footage fast enough) or have sent to them by FedEx as if they were tapes - I figure $200 for 250GB drives this year, less per Gig soon.

In terms of formats for editing I figure the client will call that tune and since they are paying for drive space... Any client who seems unable to figure this out themselves I will sell them on DVCPRO-HD despite its quality issues since it will allow me to get a lot of footage onto the drives. I am a big proponent of Quicktime or some actual standards body setting a nice middle of the road standard for HD that is not a Sony or Panasonic thing. I suggest a 10bit, 4:4:4, full raster 1920p @23.98, 25, 29.97 and 59.94 with mild compression, preferably wavelet that uses about 3GB/min @59.94. Until then we get to dance the dance. I also means that for many projects the post house will not have access to the RAW version unless they want to take the conform step and open up another revenue stream for me

 

[Steven Parker]

Well said, Blair, I am on your page... though I envy you the van chock full o' toys... Ah well, soon enough.

BTW you're the first person I've seen on these posts to see RedCine as possible additional income even though I've mentioned it before. I just wonder where I'll find the time as my heart lies in shooting, not post...

Maybe the RED team can help us clone ourselves so we can shoot one project while we're timing/transcoding the last one...how's that for modular?

 

[GlennChan]

Hmm what about data backups (tape)? Perhaps it would be a chance to upsell the client if they would like to have a backup of their own footage.

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

We do this with HVX footage.....
But we are talking a 300 gig $150 drive that will hold
days and days of P2 cards...
The fun part is getting the client upto speed on how
to import P2 into their NLE of choice. FCP is cake.
But many clients are still on Premiere and need to buy at least Raylight ($195) but most Premiere users like Aspect HD ($500) so if a comparable price to a REDCINE Light version might be the way to go. I would rather give the client a 1:1 copy of the RED footage then have to log and render footage in a lesser format. If you had to give the client another format you would have to have like a Tele-Cine session and CC and WB all the footage as you go....
If the client could get REDCINE I know most would rather do that themselves.....Perhaps the RED owners can be the distribution channel for REDCINE?

 

[P Andersson]

Freelance RedOne owner/ops must be able to generate a ready to use version of the shot footage quickly and easily to book rental days for the camera.

with the intensity card from blackmagic, maybe it would be possible in studio solutions to record a smaller format directly to computer that would be ready for client delivery without any post processing at all, that is, if the timecode is kept through the hdmi

have thought of different ways that the red could possibly produce a small file of every clip on a different media on camera that you could easily give away right away

on still camera shoots, I often shoot raw and jpg at the same time and simply hand off the jpg as an editing tool and tell clients to email me their choices, then I go back to the raw and make a good cc etc

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Double trouble?

Double trouble?

The idea of recording a "proxy" using one of the available outputs occured to me as well. The major disincentive was having to manage two recordings instead of one but in a studio setting perhaps that would be a minor issue.

The big upside is that processor in the camera is doing all the work for you on the fly - no rendering. The quality of even a 720p output is plenty for editorial and the addition of graticules and camera data as overlays is a plus as far as I am concerned (just like burned in timecode it makes the review copies impossible to use for their project so they have to pay me in order to get the clean version )

I don't fully grasp exactly what is possible but there have been some posts that inferred a wavelet compressed encode like RedCode RAW carries a low res "base" version already. Perhaps RedCine will ship with the ability to create real time offline quality output??? This is beyond my expertise but perhaps someone else in our Reduser community can clear it up - or even someone on the Red Team?

 

[tj williams]

Blair: Love the van, also need Latte machine, area for invoicing and of course a place to recline while you are in your trailer!

anything about how to fit the van into a backpack, or carry on luggage will be very helpful????

Also how fast will this monster render out to 1080P 24 DVCPro HD???

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The need for speed

The need for speed

Blair: Love the van, also need Latte machine, area for invoicing and of course a place to recline while you are in your trailer!

anything about how to fit the van into a backpack, or carry on luggage will be very helpful????

Also how fast will this monster render out to 1080P 24 DVCPro HD???

Espresso machine yes. Recliner - check.

For flypack gigs I am thinking about just renting extra RedDrives and if necessary renting a fast computer system at the site to run copies. If I was hopscotching by air I have considered using commercial data storage vendors to make clones of the footage.

Render times for 4k to 1080/24p DVCPro-HD via RedCine are impossible to know at this point but you gotta believe that the more computer horsepower and bus bandwidth the faster it will be.

 

[Corrado Silveri]

Hey Wade, in this way you've decompress "out" and recompress "in".
The codec was the same, ok, but you modify the original footage twice...
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Wade,
all I was suggesting was that the Firewire equipped deck would be the best way to transfer DVCPro HD material (or any DV format material for that matter) into FCP for Native codec editing. But as you said, the deck was not available to you at the time. Going via HD-SDI will always involve un-concatenated scaling, as HD-SDI only carries square pixels. I would see a possible benefit in capturing HD-SDI if you were capturing uncompressed, and laying off to a full rater format like HDCam SR. It just seems to me not the best way to go if you are scaling back down to 960 on capture.

I always try and preserve media in its native format where possible. Even when doing DV edits I work Firewire DV throughout, then convert the timeline to 10 bit un-compressed, render all, then lay off to Digi.

Completely agree.