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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

... Ah... I don't think I can buy Raven... thinking about canceling the order.

Minu Park

Minu Park

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Recently I've directed several shows and live band session with multiple dragons

constantly...

And I just realized that...

the nightmare has come to me again. THAT crazy amount of light that I need to provide to Red sensor in order to get nice image out of it.....



Yes, that god damn 2-3 stops of loosing is crucial when it comes to no money projects. You need to rent 1.2k hmi instead of 1k tungsten...

On the other hand, I've been really spoiled to use FF framing using FS7 and Red dragon's large sensor and I am not so sure that I want that x2 crop...
At the end, I just ordered good steadicam and inspire 1 + X5 to increase my capacity with my not so good FS7... and I will rent the Dragon when I need it.

Seriously... I think I am so spoiled with using base iso 2000 + Speed booster. it's two stops!!! - It means, your lighting budget needs to be 2-3 times more expensive in summary.
I'd rather save some bucks and get the 8K in two years, when the "new 8k camera that cost me 20-30k"

Ugh..

Thanks guys and see you soon again :)
 
Yeah I think Gregg Toland shared the same issue with you when he had to deal with film stocks with an ASA of 32
 
You are flat out out of your mind. You can shoot Red dragon in just about anything you can see in with reasonably fast lenses. If you want to shoot in the dark, knock your self out, but that's not cinematography.

Hell, I shot an entire feature on red one MX and the biggest units I used the whole movie was a source 4 par. If you don't have enough light to shoot Red, you are doing it wrong.

Nick
 
Good-bye!
 
Have to do what you have to do...... *Skips you in Raven queue*
 
All you need man, are three chords and the truth. You speak with forked tongue.
 
Let's try to look at this objectively. The subjective nature of "a nice image" makes it difficult to really assess your situation. What stop are you trying to achieve during these shows? What is your threshold for noise? What OLPF is installed? Please post an R3D.

I do think there are situations where other cameras are better suited than RED cameras but it often involves a necessity for in camera processing that is not available on RED such as noise reduction. Some cameras "see in the dark" but it's not an Apples to Apples comparison with RED when those internal processing chains are involved.

Ultimately you need to go with whatever image best suits your production needs, but it would be good to see your reference point, i.e. an R3D and maybe a still from FS7.
 
I feel like everyone should really take this into consideration and cancel their orders as well. I'm very far back on the line and I would really appreciate it.
 
Tony Ditata said:
I feel like everyone should really take this into consideration and cancel their orders as well. I'm very far back on the line and I would really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Your in front of me.. I think you should take your own advice haha :) But in all seriousness, Steves post above pretty much is the most relevant response. Or.. Just cancel and go for 8K when ready.
 
Yes very true. Steve was right on the money.
Haha. I will not be taking my own advice. At least we can suffer together in anticipation.
 
Yup! I'll be celebrating when you post about shipping/receiving cause I'll be right after that can't wait!!
 
I have a bottle of my favorite vodka sealed and ready for that email. haha. I think we have taken this thread off course.
Your not too far behind me so I wouldn't be surprised if we're in the same batch. Hopefully somehow that first March batch. I'm thinking foolishly positive.
 
Hennessy bottle for me. I asked Jarred in the "January update" thread, there's a possibility for March/April cause of Scarlet W switches! OP sorry for derailing the thread, but this is an example of the intangibles with being in the Red community, and just look at our genuine excitement. Yes there's a crop, yes you're used to your previous set up, but following Steves advice on page 1. Doing some comparisons asking some questions, and doing some tests you'll be sure to make the right decision for yourself.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
Let's try to look at this objectively. The subjective nature of "a nice image" makes it difficult to really assess your situation. What stop are you trying to achieve during these shows? What is your threshold for noise? What OLPF is installed? Please post an R3D.

I do think there are situations where other cameras are better suited than RED cameras but it often involves a necessity for in camera processing that is not available on RED such as noise reduction. Some cameras "see in the dark" but it's not an Apples to Apples comparison with RED when those internal processing chains are involved.

Ultimately you need to go with whatever image best suits your production needs, but it would be good to see your reference point, i.e. an R3D and maybe a still from FS7.
Click to expand...

One of the example that I can show you :)

Situation: Youtube space live music session for a band - Total shooting time + preparation + quick pre-meeting. Within 6 hours, we must shoot for two songs - each song will have 3-5 takes each.
-Middle of the shooting, producer suddenly added the "commercial, or just promotional purposes slow mo sequence"

Gear - 3 Dragons with Canon cine prime sets

Lighting - Original Set lighting of the youtube station + Only one Arri plus kit (1k, 650, 350, 150) - I required more, but it seems, we didn't have an access to it.

Back ground lighting situation - Led Light spot - lumens of 1000 with blue back ground. In order to pop that back ground lights, I must match the source of the lights with key and fill with it. At 2.8 Iso 800, it shows me 1/24 - super low power.

Since i REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY AUTHORITY TO ADD MORE LIHTS, NORE REPLACE THE LIGHT, I HAD TO SHOT WITH IT.... -

Ah...

Youtube studio C's rule - You can put gels or what you want, but you can't change the direction of the light - In fact, all lights on the ceiling were locked the whole studio.
Theme: A juxtaposition between 1960s' jazzy bar.
Shot on 6K 12:1 - Our goal was finishing entire day within 800 GB. - At the end we have used 650gb. - I was going to shoot it on 8:1, but it would be more than 1tb.

Note: Singer has a freedom sprit, and never followed the mark, therefore a lots of shot was missing the point.

- Steve, I will send you two links of drafts of the video that i just edited - I will PM you now.

Any how, I am in a big struggling, and that's all I wanted to say :)
 
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Nick Gardner said:
You are flat out out of your mind. You can shoot Red dragon in just about anything you can see in with reasonably fast lenses. If you want to shoot in the dark, knock your self out, but that's not cinematography.

Hell, I shot an entire feature on red one MX and the biggest units I used the whole movie was a source 4 par. If you don't have enough light to shoot Red, you are doing it wrong.

Nick
Click to expand...
Come on man, what an off-base post! Read what the poor man actually wrote. He's shooting live bands. Maybe that's not "cinematography," but it is work. And it has to be done well, under a lot of challenging constraints... that you completely ignored.
 
Another Example:

Indie feature: Super ultra cheap, almost no budget project.

Lighting: 2 Diva + 4x 1x1 Led Panel + 1k, 2k, 650, 350 arri.

Dragon with Sigma art prime sets + 11-16 tokina

Situation: Art department almost has no money, finding strong practical lights were almost impossible.

Director doesn't like natural light look... He really wanted it to be look like pilots - SO EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GET INTO THE SPACE, FIRSTLY, WE BLOCK THE LIGHT, THAN, WE HAD TO LIGHT EVERYTHING WITH WHAT WE WERE GIVEN.
I think, because we didn't have strong flat light source - (I really hoped we had any of these.. 4k,1.2K, 8ft kino, or 2- 4x4 banks kino...) we had to put 4 pcs 1x1 together with translusent shower curtain most of the time.

I remember, I tend to stay in lumen of 2000-2500 on the subject - 2.8 with 1/60. 1/48 - F4 in most time.
It means whenever there is a bit of fall off fill part, I tend to make a stop differences on the subject. However lack of space, and control over the enough lights on the subject only, I had to give up lights on the back ground - the fifth zone.

But, if I had a bit better low noise camera at that time, if I used FS7 instead Red, I am sure myself two stop of freedom def would help me to have a space for shooting very smoothly.

From Back ground to matching the fore ground... everything...

I am not saying that Red camera is bad.

It's still created the better image than my FS7. I never liked FS7 or sony's color in general. Only problem is that I am not a super demanded DP like you guys, which means most of my gigs have been super low indie films.
and I must deal with god damn no budget film every single time.

With 15amps household light sources, you don't really have a lots of options some times, I mean, if I had a bit better budget on either art direction or lighting department to rent 2-3 1.2k HMI and enough generator to not to be worried about breaking the fuse all the time, yes I would be always stick with RED.

Unfortunately... in most gigs, I am not even allowed to be shot in 6:1 because we had too little budget for our DIT option.

I am sorry to complain this... I just feel a bit bad about myself that how long am I going to deal with low budget films... and I don't see improvement any time soon.
 
I shoot live events and there have been many times I wished my Dragon had a higher base sensitivity... there are many times where the use of lights is just not possible, to have a camera that sees more into the dark would be a great thing.
 
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