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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

After DRAGON what is developing at RED....????

Some of the new cameras (with 4K video) in the $1K-$2K range have properties that would be very useful in Dragon. For instance, both Panasonic LX100 and Samsung NX1 have a WiFi link and app making it possible not only to control the camera but also to view the image on the phone screen.

Samsung NX1 is the first (video) camera in which I've found the autofocus to actually work (with the 16-50mm/f2.0 lens). Moreover, the AF even follows nicely a moving finger on the screen. Although quite awkward to say in this forum, it seems the AF of Samsung NX1 is way ahead that of RED. Such an AF in Dragon would be wonderful. (Of course, the comparison is bit unfair as Samsung produces also the lens, and this makes the AF design challenge less stringent.) Ever since receiving R1 at some point early in 2008, NX1 is the first camera I've had introducing features that I would happily transfer to my RED camera.

I would also appreciate more sensitivity in the Dragon sensor. Say, if Dragon had as little noise in low light as the NX1 4K video, that would be absolutely fantastic.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Some of the new cameras (with 4K video) in the $1K-$2K range have properties that would be very useful in Dragon. For instance, both Panasonic LX100 and Samsung NX1 have a WiFi link and app making it possible not only to control the camera but also to view the image on the phone screen.

Samsung NX1 is the first (video) camera in which I've found the autofocus to actually work (with the 16-50mm/f2.0 lens). Moreover, the AF even follows nicely a moving finger on the screen. Although quite awkward to say in this forum, it seems the AF of Samsung NX1 is way ahead that of RED. Such an AF in Dragon would be wonderful. (Of course, the comparison is bit unfair as Samsung produces also the lens, and this makes the AF design challenge less stringent.) Ever since receiving R1 at some point early in 2008, NX1 is the first camera I've had introducing features that I would happily transfer to my RED camera.

I would also appreciate more sensitivity in the Dragon sensor. Say, if Dragon had as little noise in low light as the NX1 4K video, that would be absolutely fantastic.
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The NX1 is amazing. Anyone that thinks otherwise hasn't played with it yet. It's no Dragon - but it's amazing and it basically destroys everything in the "middle range" - BlackMagic, AJA, etc.
 
Nick Morrison said:
But for big studio shoots, where there's "a way to do things"...a STUDIO version of Dragon would probably go a long way towards winning over AC's and producers.
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There was a shoot on Tulane's campus the other day that I watched for a little while before I got disgusted with all the trucks and trucks and trucks of gear (that were blocking traffic and taking up all the parking spaces) and had to leave. Screw the "way to do things." Red shouldn't bend over. Let the studios keep spending more to rent talent trailers and monogram directors' chairs than, in 2015, needs to be spent purchaisng a camera. It's their funeral.
 
It'll be interesting to see what's next, the last 3 years of NAB have been about Dragon, and only recently did the Dragon-X new purchases start. That's a long time to focus on one product, so something tells me whatever is next is a totally new platform. Red also isn't about the "me too" stuff, they want to blaze new territory. I can't see them going the mega-high resolution rate and charging an crazy price for it. Red in the beginning was about making "4K for the indie", so I'd say it's going to be something like "high speed for everyone" no windowing shit, or maybe a 65mm style...but that also leaves a lot of lensing options out. I'm putting my money on high speed cameras, announced at NAB, shipping end of 2015.
 
I remember an old post from Red on the net and the last camera sensor was 9K hmmmm
 
RED, please make a full frame 35mm camera

RED, please make a full frame 35mm camera

I think it just makes sense to have a full frame 35mm sensor, Dragon quality or better. Two favors. One that is basically a DSLR on steroids for run and gun and drone work (which is 75% of everything that gets shot these days and a full studio version with all the connections needed. Both can have modularity options to be able to keep the accessories when you need them.
Thats just me, but I would really love that.
 
A small lightweight dedicated aerial camera shooting 4k/5k @ 60fps max.
 
After almost ten years of existence, three different base camera models, and two modules that never saw the light of day (The Meizler and the proxy modules), It is safe to say that Red has NO intentions whatsoever to have internal Prores or DNX recording, and I for one am perfectly ok with it. Raw rules! However.... how about Raw recording at lower resolutions WITHOUT windowing down on the sensor. This would allow for higher frame rates and lower recdode compressions. Also, as many others have pointed, I too would love to see built in NDs, global shutter, and better sensitivity.
 
With all the chatter at CES about HDR I'd love to see some additional tweaks to HDR mode. This has always been one of my favourite Red innovations (the red codec remains at the top) and if it could be made better it would be quite something...combined with even faster media to keep compression ratios low when recording HDR.
 
Anything new on the RED Laser Projector front? Lots of other companies are moving into LP Land and will be launching products in the next few years. CES 2015 had a few LP demos.
 
Jeremy Torrie said:
With all the chatter at CES about HDR I'd love to see some additional tweaks to HDR mode. This has always been one of my favourite Red innovations (the red codec remains at the top) and if it could be made better it would be quite something...combined with even faster media to keep compression ratios low when recording HDR.
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RED can't really improve HDR mode without violating the laws of physics. Improved HDR mode = Dragon's higher native dynamic range. :D
 
I have to say I loved my Epic MX and love my Dragon even more. The existing camera is the perfect camera for 80% of what I shoot. I am from the S35 generation and really am happy working in that world or as close to it digitally. Sure more DR, more sensitivity would always be welcome. I think if Red decides to go to a bigger sensor then its going to be a complete rethink and redesign of the camera. And a new product altogether for those who feel they need that. And I hope they continue to support the Epic for a long time.
 
I do not think the Dragon lacks in terms of image quality. The next camera, will most likely be equally good for it's time. I've never had a single issue with the imagery produced by any of the RED cameras. However, the physical design of the camera itself needs some serious thought. This has been an area that rivals the high quality of the RED footage with it's curiously considered aspects. I have no qualms with the size and modular nature of the camera. My complaints are the layout/placement of all the connectors, inputs, outputs, etc. I'm not a fan of any audio input on a camera but, mini plugs protruding from the front of the camera for audio capture? Really...Why? One BNC for video placed where even with my tiny, girl like, hands I struggle to use. A 90º connecter only forces it to protrude into my neck when handheld. Yes...a quite literal...pain in the neck. All the connectors on the rear lower portion of the camera should be moved toward the dumb side of the camera. The name Dragon is suggestive of many things. Power being one of them. Yet this is one thing the Dragon lacks. Power to run an onboard monitor, MDR, Cinetape etc. 2pin or 3pin standard power outs would be a very welcomed addition.

I have had no and have heard few complaints about the images produced by the RED camera. The issues I raised concerning connector placement etc. are the complaints I have and hear most often. I would hope that in the next camera, design and ease of use are considered and questioned with feedback from folks who use the red products as well as those who own them. As a DP, non RED owner, I have no horse in the race other than my desire to make the next camera as easy in the hand as the footage is to the eye.
 
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Les Dittert said:
there is no gh5 yet but I'm imagining it will do 60fps when it does arrive. I've done numerous experiments with the gh4 and I'm rather satisfied surprisingly even though it is 8 bits.
I believe red will only make larger Studio cameras in the future because they can't possibly compete against those massive companies on the consumer or semi-pro small camera level. Especially when they make very similar image quality which is what I'm finding with the GH4.
For now I'm missing the high speed and excellent user interface and the feature set of the red, but I'm willing to sacrifice for the ultra lightweight ,one second boot up time as well as all day battery life.
The run and gun shooting style I do really demands lighter cameras allowing 3-axis gimbal to be mounted all the time, and my bad back demands it as well :-)
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The GH4's image quality is nowhere near the quality of the Dragon Sensor. The dragon sensor outperforms the Sony A7s @ 4k in dynamic range, color, bit depth, tonality. The Sony A7s I tested against the GH4 and it outperformed the GH4. So the GH4 is a great camera, but its not even close to the level of the Dragon.
 
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