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Affordable Fast UWAs

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Matt W.

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What are APS-C/Super35mm shooters (Scarlet owners, mostly?) using for fast ultra wide lenses? Zeiss, Canon, Nikon, and Samyang all offer lenses as wide as 24mm/25mm with a fair amount of speed (f1.4-f2), but most kits start with an 18mm. I get that wider and faster is prohibitively expensive (and the 11-16mm Tokina is pretty great and reasonably fast), but are there any affordable 16mm or 18mm f2 or f1.4 options? This is a field of view I use a lot indoors and I can put together a great 24/35/50/85 and longer kit super cheap, and the 24mm f1.4 is amazing on the 5D but video quality is much worse.... so this is missing affordably, unless anyone has any options they recommend?
 
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An affordable solution to wide angle lesnes, if you can't afford the big dog lenses, seems to be the Tokina 11-16.

You can get the regular one, or pony up for the more expensive but still budget friendly (when compared to the good cinema lenses) and get the PL Duclos rehoused one. It's probably the best PL wide angle solution in that range without breaking the bank.

If you really need speed, there are some primes that are fast, but good, fast and cheap lenses in any form are hard to find.
 
Matt W. said:
What are APS-C/Super35mm shooters (Scarlet owners, mostly?) using for fast ultra wide lenses? Zeiss, Canon, Nikon, and Samyang all offer lenses as wide as 24mm/25mm with a fair amount of speed (f1.4-f2), but most kits start with an 18mm. I get that wider and faster is prohibitively expensive (and the 11-16mm Tokina is pretty great and reasonably fast), but are there any affordable 16mm or 18mm f2 or f1.4 options? This is a field of view I use a lot indoors and I can put together a great 24/35/50/85 and longer kit super cheap, and the 24mm f1.4 is amazing on the 5D but video quality is much worse.... so this is missing affordably, unless anyone has any options they recommend?
Click to expand...

Fast wides don't exist, at least not in the stills world. In cine glass a used, MKI Standard Prime 16mm T2 can be had affordably if you REALLY look.

The RPP 18 is awesome for the price.
 
Interesting. I don't have issues with the 24mm f/1.4L in terms of quality.

What's available today:

Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8
Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8
Nikon, Canon, Rokinon 14mm f/2.8
Nikon 18mm f/2.8
Canon, Nikon 20mm f/2.8
Sigma 20mm f/1.8
Zeiss 21mm f/2.8
Olympus 21mm f/2

Nikon has an 18mm f/1.8 and a 20mm f/1.8 "FX" lens in the works.

Rokinon has a 10mm f/2.8 lens in the works which will cover 5K.
 
Phil Holland said:
Interesting. I don't have issues with the 24mm f/1.4L in terms of quality.

What's available today:

Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8
Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8
Nikon, Canon, Rokinon 14mm f/2.8
Nikon 18mm f/2.8
Canon, Nikon 20mm f/2.8
Sigma 20mm f/1.8
Zeiss 21mm f/2.8
Olympus 21mm f/2

Nikon has an 18mm f/1.8 and a 20mm f/1.8 "FX" lens in the works.

Rokinon has a 10mm f/2.8 lens in the works which will cover 5K.
Click to expand...

My opinion of the 24mm L is strongly positive, but it's only an ultrawide on the 1DC and 5D, not on super35mm. It has some ugly locas, but the contrast and sharpness are excellent. It's certainly better than the Rokinon equivalent (which is great based on my sample but the locas are hideous and the vignetting particularly bad) and the 24mm AIS.

The Olympus 21mm f/2 looks really tempting. That could be part of an amazing kit.

I suppose the cheapest EF mount kit that's half decent would be 11-16mm Tokina, 24mm, 35mm, and 85mm Rokinons and a fast 50mm and long zoom?
 
What you seek is what I seek, and it doesn't exist yet... unless Rokinon decide to produce a fast 18mm... I've asked, I've asked!

Fast and wide IS hard to do, and harder to do well; a Rokinon 18mm T1.5 may or may not be something you would ever want to use...

Mike
 
Phil listed the Nikon 14-24, just wanted to say that Focus Optics offers that lens rehouse in a PL mount, and that it is a FF35 lens, besides being incredibly sharp and nearly pin/barrel distortion free (disclaimer, I designed the lens for Focus).
Ken Robings
digitaloptik.net
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
What you seek is what I seek, and it doesn't exist yet... unless Rokinon decide to produce a fast 18mm... I've asked, I've asked!

Fast and wide IS hard to do, and harder to do well; a Rokinon 18mm T1.5 may or may not be something you would ever want to use...

Mike
Click to expand...

I asked them for one, too! I think there's not much market in stills since most kit lenses cover this focal length and with IS you're doing okay with speed, anyway. I don't think this lens would be possible on FF very easily or someone would have made it, so it would have to be APS-C I'd think.

There DOES seem to be a market for an APS-C 16mm f1.4, though (I'm partially guessing?) because that's the closest thing to the very useful 24mm f1.4 lens. And that would fit into a kit just as well. If the 10mm f2.8 is any sign that they're scaling things down, here's to hoping. Otherwise the 11-16mm zoom seems decent enough, but I love the deep staging look with slightly shallow focus.
 
Matt W. said:
The Olympus 21mm f/2 looks really tempting. That could be part of an amazing kit.
Click to expand...

It's a great lens. I have one. Extremely small for the speed too. Just don't know how they managed to do that so long ago.

You might also add to the list the new Zeiss 15mm f2.8 and the T2.9 CP.2 version.
 
That Olympus 21mm f/2 and the 18mm f/3.5 is what I refer to as "magic stuff". Strange and wonderful design. Compact and sharp. Whatever was going on in the late 70's at Olympus was rather magical.

Forgot about that Zeiss 15mm f/2.8. It's a relatively new lens. I've been bad and haven't been testing glass the second it's come out. I'll have a look at it soon.
 
Phil Holland said:
That Olympus 21mm f/2 and the 18mm f/3.5 is what I refer to as "magic stuff". Strange and wonderful design. Compact and sharp. Whatever was going on in the late 70's at Olympus was rather magical.

Forgot about that Zeiss 15mm f/2.8. It's a relatively new lens. I've been bad and haven't been testing glass the second it's come out. I'll have a look at it soon.
Click to expand...

The Zeiss is also a bit expensive.

Is the Olympus decent even wide open? Is the whole line of fast (f2-ish) Zuikos 55mm threads down to 21mm? That sounds like such a nice kit (21, 28, 35, 50, and 85mm) if that's the case. I have all those focal lengths in manual focus F mount at f2 or faster, and a 24mm f2, too, but the spherical aberration is so bad on that 24mm f2 I can't use it and really none of them are great until f2.8, but the "look" is nice and 52mm threads are amazing for ND availability. Something that spits the difference between that and the Samyangs (super sharp but kind of unpleasant aesthetically, still amazing for what they are) would be a great kit.
 
Quick Look

Info

Lens Tests

Prices
(this represents the low end in my experience)

The most 'recent' versions are the 'sharpest', if that's what you're looking for - although the older one's are really great as well. Generally, look for lenses labeled 'MC' (multi-coated) or 'NMC' (n=new?)

I recommend the 50 1.4 over the 1.2 (not worth the extra cost). That 85 is pretty legit as well, and the 28/2 is regarded as their best wide lens ever. Here's some serial numbers to look for (again, if you're particularly interested in the latest versions).

50 1.4 SN: 1,000,000+
85 2.0 SN: 115,000+

don't remember which particular lens I was using... but here's something I shot wide open last summer on these babies:
http://vimeo.com/paulherrin/rockytop

oh, and pay a few extra bucks for the fotodiox pro adapter... believe me, it's worth it.
 
Matt W. said:
Is the Olympus decent even wide open? Is the whole line of fast (f2-ish) Zuikos 55mm threads down to 21mm? That sounds like such a nice kit (21, 28, 35, 50, and 85mm) if that's the case. I have all those focal lengths in manual focus F mount at f2 or faster, and a 24mm f2, too, but the spherical aberration is so bad on that 24mm f2 I can't use it and really none of them are great until f2.8, but the "look" is nice and 52mm threads are amazing for ND availability.
Click to expand...

The blog on LensRentals.com did a writeup of why one shouldn't ever shoot any lens, really, wide open. They detailed out MTF charts and the like, and showed that almost every lens has an enormous jump in sharpness from it's most wide open to the next available stop. Sharpness does change from stop to stop, but that first jump is almost always the most significant by a very, very wide margin.

So, whenever I look at lenses, especially in the "lower" end (basically anything other than Superspeeds and higher; I figure lenses in that range [which I can't yet get my hands on in my career] are probably better at all stops than lenses in my hands), I always factor in that I'm going to be knocking it down a stop or two before using it. So a f1.4 is, to me, an f2.0. That's not to say I will never ever use it as f1.4 (and the new Contax Zeiss lenses I just got have a delightful "ninja star" bokeh at the two most wide open stops), but for over 95% of the shots I take with it, I would consider 1.4 "unusable".

Again, this is a rule of thumb thing, but I've found it useful to know that that first stop is much, much blurrier than any other stop for almost any lens.
 
Ken Robings said:
Phil listed the Nikon 14-24, just wanted to say that Focus Optics offers that lens rehouse in a PL mount, and that it is a FF35 lens, besides being incredibly sharp and nearly pin/barrel distortion free (disclaimer, I designed the lens for Focus).
Ken Robings
digitaloptik.net
Click to expand...

Then you did good work; the Nikon 14-24 is my all-time favourite lens, it's a truly amazing piece of kit for the price. But at T3 or so it's no substitute for a fast prime.

Mike
 
Nick Pasquariello said:
The blog on LensRentals.com did a writeup of why one shouldn't ever shoot any lens, really, wide open. They detailed out MTF charts and the like, and showed that almost every lens has an enormous jump in sharpness from it's most wide open to the next available stop. Sharpness does change from stop to stop, but that first jump is almost always the most significant by a very, very wide margin.

So, whenever I look at lenses, especially in the "lower" end (basically anything other than Superspeeds and higher; I figure lenses in that range [which I can't yet get my hands on in my career] are probably better at all stops than lenses in my hands), I always factor in that I'm going to be knocking it down a stop or two before using it. So a f1.4 is, to me, an f2.0. That's not to say I will never ever use it as f1.4 (and the new Contax Zeiss lenses I just got have a delightful "ninja star" bokeh at the two most wide open stops), but for over 95% of the shots I take with it, I would consider 1.4 "unusable".

Again, this is a rule of thumb thing, but I've found it useful to know that that first stop is much, much blurrier than any other stop for almost any lens.
Click to expand...

*shrug*

I certainly wouldn't say 'shouldn't ever'. You have to know your glass and know what it can and can't do; it's a creative choice.

As for Superspeeds, go out and rent a set for a day, have a play, and achieve enlightenment!

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
*shrug*

I certainly wouldn't say 'shouldn't ever'. You have to know your glass and know what it can and can't do; it's a creative choice.

As for Superspeeds, go out and rent a set for a day, have a play, and achieve enlightenment!

Mike
Click to expand...

That's probably a better way to state it: it's a choice. Either way, it is certainly useful to know that there's almost always that huge jump in sharpness at that specific stop increment.

As for trying new gear, I am always in favor of testing out, personally, as much as I can get my hands on. Compared to most of you, I'm very much "just starting out" At this specific point in time, renting a whole kit just to test is not monetarily responsible of me. Perhaps I can rent 1 or 2 though . . .
 
My advice is to start investing in Full Fame glass and Zeiss 15mm T2.9 is the way to go.
 
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