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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

AF100, ouch

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The problem with this clip that Phil Bloom posted, is that it doesn't really show what the camera is doing noise wise in the shadows, which has been a real problem for the GH1, even with the hack. It's compressed for web so it's not easy to tell what compression is doing what.
Also it's obviously over exposed with blown highlights. Here are a couple of quick grabs from my GH13, at 1.8 iso 1600, which I did earlier. I know, I need a shave!
1059716426_89d9J-L.jpg

1059716463_S63Jx-L.jpg


On the second one, just before the match goes out, you can see the codec problems on my cheek ( plus the FPN problem ), which I'm sure is still going to be a problem to some extent with AF100. I'm sure that Phil has probably seen some improvement here, but it's hard to judge on Vimeo.
If you need detail to push and pull in post and you're going to be shooting in these kinds of conditions, then a RAW file is going to be a huge advantage.
 
As long as customers put up with line-skipping, companies will continue to release these cameras in pretty boxes. As soon as this stuff is rejected... they will give you what you really need. Pretty easy to understand.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
As long as customers put up with line-skipping, companies will continue to release these cameras in pretty boxes. As soon as this stuff is rejected... they will give you what you really need. Pretty easy to understand.

Jim
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
Well I don't care what kind of box the Scarlet comes in, but the pretty boxing does help make the unboxing videos on Youtube look nice :)
 
Tom Lowe said:
Lol. So they have figured out a way to degrade their image enough to hopefully avoid aliasing and moiré. Wonderful. I guess there will be no need to invest in decent glass, since their filter is going to degrade the crap out of the image anyway.
Click to expand...

But it has great depth of field! I'm in love with it! Not. :biggrinjester:
 
Jannard said:
Good news for the community is that there are lots of choices. The reason I started RED was because I could see that there wasn't a company that was motivated to give you everything. It seems like that is still true...

High resolution
RAW
Frame rates
Dynamic Range
Compact
Upgrades more than promised

Jim
Click to expand...

Here here!

The AF100 looks like a great camera in its ball park. It is what it is. For people whose other choices are DSLR or an HPX170 with a Letus, its practically heaven.

It also appears that you should be able to get a high quality 8-bit 4:2:2 image out of the HD-SDI and/or HDMI. It should deliver a nice ProRes (not HQ) right away and be post friendly from that point forward.

With an MSRP in the $5000 range, I think you have the first of the DSLR killers.

I hate the sensor size. I really want a sensor closer to the S35 sensor size, ideally one designed around using PL mount lenses, but I'd be happy with Canon or Nikon lenses on an APS-C.

Like Jim points out, it doesn't touch any of the proposed RED cameras. Then again, it shouldn't.

Doing a quick look t the 11/30 announcement a Scarlet S35 kit adds up to $22000 or so + lenses once ready to run. (with 1-2 LCDs, EVF, Pro i/o, Pro REDMote, batteries, SSD, etc. and accounting for HDRx™.)

These are not comparable cameras. The Scarlet will blow it out of the water... but it will also cost four times as much... and the difference for a lot of jobs will be negligible to the client.

So... every one get your panties out of a knot.

The AF100 sucks compared to RED, but its a huge improvement over an HVX200 or an EX1 with a Letus.

Let's all go make pictures!
 
RED1, EPIC, Scarlet, Alexa, F35, Genesis will have a very hard competition from the combo like a 5D2K and AG-AF100/101.

Have a look at 1080p:

af100_clean.jpg

Shot on Panasonic AG-AF100 with Nikon 14-24 FX G f/2.8 zoom.

5DMK2_moire.jpg


http://www.vimeo.com/16007277
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
RED1, EPIC, Scarlet, Alexa, F35, Genesis will have a very hard competition from the combo like a 5D2K and AG-AF100/101.

Have a look at 1080p:


Shot on Panasonic AG-AF100 with Nikon 14-24 FX G f/2.8 zoom.



http://www.vimeo.com/16007277
Click to expand...

As good as the AF100 looks, it's a completely different class of camera from most of those you mentioned. the AF100 is a prosumer camera, with a great price, but meant for independent films, shorts and commercials.

The Alexa, F35 and Genesis are professional level cameras, meant to be on large sets with a lot of lighting and set ups available. You can still ahve them out on smaller sets, but generally they fall out of the price range of most of them.

The Red is kind of middle of the road. Cheap enough for indie, yet works well in the large, union film environment.

Personal Choice: Super 35 on the Arri's or Panavisions, if shooting digital, Alexa.
 
I thought the car footage looked really nice. I'm sure they've done a great job improving on the GH1 and the codec and I can see times I might want to rent one of these. I bet blue skies will still be a problem with it though:emote_couch:
 
It is a $5k camera and ready to shoot out of the box (minus lens and SD card) it will do fantastically well.

Considering RED is trying to distance itself from the consumer crowd... i'm not sure why it is even discussed here.

Until RED brings out a $5k camera or one of these guys brings out a pro cinema tool for $25k or less... then these comparisons are pretty worthless if you are a) on a budget or b) only want pro cinema gear.
 
Did anyone else find P Bloom's cigar test quite clever and funny? Good test though. I'm tired of looking at charts, I like compared oranges to oranges.

I'm quite impressed with the AF100. Yes, I'll wait for the Scarlet, no I don't think it's a "red killer". Still, in some of the lower end stuff I shoot I've gotten tired of choosing between a DSLR or an EX3. There's finally a camera that improves low light performance, IQ and form factor in that price range.

Panasonic are going to have a fantastic Christmas in terms of sales. I wish them all the luck. Personally, I'll rent as needed and keep holding out for the Scarlets :)
 
I finished a nice little shoot with my Red yesterday and between set-ups chatted with my free-lancers about conditions in my small market; I was surprised to hear that they all reported that about 80% of their work is on shoots with the Canon 5DMkII. 80% guys; does that tell you something? It should.

Fire away and criticize the AF100 all you want, but this little camera is going to kick ass. The people hiring us don't pixel-peep; they don't talk line-skipping. They look at the pictures; that's it. Just the pictures. Light it beautifully, block it and compose it beautifully, and they will love you. Take a long look at that Alfa clip.

The planets are aligned for the AF100; down economy, clients looking to save on production, and the way paved for it by the "cool" factor of the 5D. There's a very serious buzz surrounding it; try to show a creative some test charts and they'll want to show you the door. I should add that I have one client in particular who won't even consider a lesser camera than the Red for his work and I've done a pretty good selling job on some others, but they are hearing the siren call of the 5D from their peers.

The Scarlet S35 promises to be a very significant camera; relatively cheap and a serious competitor to everything out there, even to the Epic, but it's not here now. If you come too late to the party, someone else may have already left with the prom queen.

In the near term I plan to offer four cameras; the 5DMkII or it's successor, the AF100, the Epic, and even my trusty VariCam for high vibration and helicopter shoots. I'm going to make a very deep cut in my Red camera rate to keep it competitive; I know the big rental houses are trying to hold the line with a high price, but it's not viable in the real world with so many Reds being offered at shockingly low rates.

That's the way I see it on a very pleasant Saturday morning in downtown Birmingham.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Even in the daylight Alfa video, you can see the DR limitations of the 5D and the AF100. Deep shadows get crushed pretty quickly, though that makes it look "clean" because there is nothing there, no detail and no noise.
Panasonic has done a great job of improving rolling shutter, improving the performance of the codec on fast movement, and reducing aliasing and moire by optimizing the new sensor for HD motion output vs stills. It is a huge, practical step up from a DSLR. But in the end it is still an 8-bit long GOP video camera.
 
David Rasberry said:
Even in the daylight Alfa video, you can see the DR limitations of the 5D and the AF100. Deep shadows get crushed pretty quickly, though that makes it look "clean" because there is nothing there, no detail and no noise.
Click to expand...

If you downloaded the HD version from vimeo, remember that has been compressed... this is not original footage you are dealing with.

I played with that footage and thought it had exceptional latitude for such a cheap camera.... and who knows what the in camera settings could add.
 
Hmm

Hmm

Well my DP and I are both thinking of picking up AF-100s, mostly because we of course want a Scarlet down the road but our HVX200s are getting older and it may be best to sell them before they're total paperweights. The price is good on the AF-100, I do think it is a significant improvement over the HVX200. Obviously the things pointed out here are very true, I don't look at the camera like some amazing be-all, end-all camera. Like someone else said, come on, it is what it is. In that market segment I think it's pretty darn good!

Also keep in mind we'd only be using it for corporate work (community tours, instructional videos, promotional pieces, trade shows, etc.) and at the highest end perhaps local TV ads. Any real budget, I'm shooting RED, just like I did with my feature. I love the RED, wouldn't use anything else but a RED product for a feature film as it stands now. I love the results we achieved for the feature, and the camera saved me a few times. It's that good. Shooting 4K meant that a few times because of our rushed schedule, we were able to punch in and have footage that wasn't even shot, because we weren't able to go in for a closer shot. But since we're delivering an HD-SR master and just aiming for 1080p, shooting 4K gave us the space to do that.

But the AF-100 is a tool like any other, and I think that for what I want to use it for, I'd rather have that than the HVX200. I think any complaint you can lodge against the AF-100, you could make bigger about the HVX, which has been a great camera for many shooters for 4 years now. It has just sort of had its day and now that is ending.
 
The color fringing on the match lost me. And it reminded me of the features the camera doesn't have. Honestly, its hard to get excited about a camera when you've got an Epic on order. I'd love for Panasonic to roll out some sweet solutions that give Red a run for its money, but the AF100 name says it all, doesn't it? Maybe by the time Panasonic gets to AF500, they'll have gotten it right. I'm sure its a fine camera in most situations. Those of you that buy one, I hope it fulfills your needs and exceeds your expectations. Unfortunately, my yardstick for measuring basic functionality got moved past the AF100 at the last Red Day I attended.
 
Yeah, well, you're right about that Jeff. I can't exactly say I'm excited about it, I mean I'd love to get an Epic one day but I don't have the justification. We have clients in a lot of places, where I have to hire local videographers, so what would help me the most is not having a great camera myself, but having an affordable Scarlet that people in far-away cities buy so I can get them to use it on our corporate work! Haha.
 
Jim, any chance of us getting any news on Scarlet's release schedule before the AF100 comes out?

I would avoid getting one if Scarlet is coming out a few months later.
 
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Jim Retar said:
If you downloaded the HD version from vimeo, remember that has been compressed... this is not original footage you are dealing with.

I played with that footage and thought it had exceptional latitude for such a cheap camera.... and who knows what the in camera settings could add.
Click to expand...

No question it is a big step up in the price range, and we haven't seen what the final product can do yet. But any way you cut it, you won't get film like DR out of any 8 bit video codec.
 
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