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Advice on a wide lens for Scarlet

S

Stephen Mulhearn

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Hi guys

I am doing research on buying a wide lens for my Scarlet. I am looking for one that has a Nikon mount so that I can also use it with my Nikon D700 also.
Something between 11- 16mm would be great. As my Scarlet has the cannon mount (if I can afford it I will buy the new Scarlet Nikon mount when RED release it) I am currently using the
Fotodiox Nikon to Cannon adaptor. I tried a Tokina 11-16 mm f2.8 (Nikon version) yesterday and had the problem of not being able to adjust the aperture as it has no actual aperture ring on the lens.
And off course i cannot adjust this in camera. This was a problem.

I am a budding documentary filmmaker trying to get a good quality solution and make a good long tern investment. I need a lens good for landscapes and interviews with wide backgrounds.

Any idea's, revelations or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Stephen
 
can you afford a second tokina 11-16, this one in Canon mount?
I think that may be cheaper than the Nikon smart mount.. and available a little sooner. I think that you will have trouble finding anything that will work on both your d700 and your Scarlet that is wide- angle.

I am not aware of any lens adapter that will pass iris control signal between a smart camera mount to a lens iris. On some non-red cameras (MTF and Adaptimax) have adapters that will let you manually control a nikon iris, but will not let you have any feedback to the camera to tell it what the iris setting is.
these are typically from micro 4/3, PL, and Sony E mount to nikon mount.
I cant remember if they have one that will go from Canon mount camera to Nikon Mount Lens.



I also suggest a tamron 17-50 2.8 in canon mount for your scarlet...
I have tested this on a Scarlet, and on an Epic, and it is controllable.. it is also better as an interview lens for me than the 11-16.... (that one is a little better for super wide establishing shots).
it works at 4k without vignetting badly (corners may have faint darkening at f2.8. pretty even at f5.6)

EDIT Nikon 14-24 also will give you a little "less wide" more suitable for an interview subject
 
Fotodiox also make a Canon to Nikon lens adapter that does allow you to control the iris on the G Lenses or any lens with out an aperture ring. Its worked very well for me so far.
 
Another one for the Nikon 14-24. It's an incredible lens, it really is. There's a *reason* Focus Optics have gone to the trouble of making a cinema rehousing of it, and there's a *reason* people will pay $10k plus for the resulting lens!

If you don't fancy spending that much, get the stock 14-24 and use it with a Nikon-EOS adapter on the Canon mount, or (better) the Optitek Nikon mount - until the RED mount hits the streets...

I've got the Tokina 11-16 too and it's a very fine lens, but the Nikon is.... special. I'd go so far as to say it's the one stills zoom every cinematographer should have, in some form or other.

Mike
 
Maybe the DUCLOS modded Tokina 11-16 is for you. Although not the cheapest solution, for a PL alternative this is great! And you can have it in EF Mount.

I truly believe that you will receive a perfect piece of equipment. Though I only own the standard Tokina, the Duclos mod is high up on my wish list. There's loads of happy owners. Still sometimes you can find these used here on reduser.
 
11-16 is awfully wide for shooting interviews, have you tried an interview setup with a lens this wide? If you are after a particular look then I understand but it may not be very flattering to your subject.
The optitek Nikon mount will allow you to control iris on a lens with no iris control, I use a tokina 70-200 on mine.
My standard wide (in Nikon), is the amazing 17-35 2.8 and this has an iris ring.
The Nikon 14-24 can't use filters on the front so that may be an issue for you.
Hopefully the red Nikon mount will be out soon and then the decision will be easier for you.
 
The Nikon 14-24 can use filters fine if you have a matte box - which presumably many Scarlet and Epic users will have, standard equipment for film-makers. At 4k or 5k 14mm is plenty wide.
I think that it's ultra-important to use the best lenses possible as it does make a difference. I saw a test just recently on the Sony FS700, and shots with a Canon 24-70L looked so much better than the stock lens or other mid-range Canon and Sony lenses.
 
Steve Phillipps said:
The Nikon 14-24 can use filters fine if you have a matte box - which presumably many Scarlet and Epic users will have, standard equipment for film-makers. At 4k or 5k 14mm is plenty wide.
I think that it's ultra-important to use the best lenses possible as it does make a difference. I saw a test just recently on the Sony FS700, and shots with a Canon 24-70L looked so much better than the stock lens or other mid-range Canon and Sony lenses.
Click to expand...

Right, I should have clarified that. I meant screw-on filters. No disagreement on the best lens that you can afford.
 
As others have pointed out, the Nikon 14-24 and Tokina 11-16 are both excellent lenses. Unfortunately, you're in a situation where you're dealing with multiple lens mounts and all the problems that come with it. Nikon to Canon adaptor rings work, but only just. For electronic aperture lenses, they're all but worthless.

I don't recall if it has been officially said or not by RED, but I don't think there will be a "cheap" $500 version of the Nikon mount as they have with the Aluminum Canon mount for the cameras. So you need to ask yourself if it makes more sense to try and buy a Nikon mount version of these lenses, so you can use them on your Nikon DSLR, and still have the ability to kinda use them on the Scarlet. Or if you should buy separate versions of each for the respective cameras.

Without knowing your budget or other circumstances, it's hard to recommend. But these are the best two lenses you're going to find, based on the needs you described. Nikon mount is going to be $2K for Epic/Scarlet... If you already have the Canon mount, it's probably easier and cheaper (and available now) to just buy the Canon mount version of the Tokina 11-16 and be done with it. Canon also has a 14-24 zoom. And while it's comparable to the Nikon version, and a pretty darn good lens, it's not as good overall as the Nikon variant. Most of the Canon fans will see that as blasphemy, but the truth is Canon and Nikon both make excellent glass. They both make very similar lenses in nearly identical focal lengths across their product lines and most are comparable in quality and performance. However, Canon has the edge on some models while Nikon on others. The ones that truly stand out in the Nikon lineup are the "G primes" and for zooms the 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200 are stellar. The Canon counterparts to those lenses are excellent as well, the 24-70 in both camps are about as equal to one another as can be. Nikon edges out the Canon with the 14-24 model and the scales tip the other way to Canon when comparing the 70-200 LII to the 70-200 VR2. Both of those longer zooms are exceptional from each maker and at times I wonder if it's not even the optics that differentiate, but rather the cameras' own internal processing and lens compensation.
 
I use the Canon 16-35mm L II on my Scarlet. Great lens.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
They both make very similar lenses in nearly identical focal lengths across their product lines and most are comparable in quality and performance. However, Canon has the edge on some models while Nikon on others. The ones that truly stand out in the Nikon lineup are the "G primes" and for zooms the 14-24, 24-70 and 70-200 are stellar. The Canon counterparts to those lenses are excellent as well, the 24-70 in both camps are about as equal to one another as can be. Nikon edges out the Canon with the 14-24 model and the scales tip the other way to Canon when comparing the 70-200 LII to the 70-200 VR2. Both of those longer zooms are exceptional from each maker and at times I wonder if it's not even the optics that differentiate, but rather the cameras' own internal processing and lens compensation.
Click to expand...

Pretty good summary I'd say Jeff.

If it were me I'd go for Canon as it's completely seemless using them on Scarlet / Epic. I tried a Nikon mount adapter on something else, one that had a ring to adjust the aperture and I found it very awkward. If you're from a broadcast video or film background the Canon EF lenses are just insanely cheap, even the top of tha range ones.
Steve
 
I know there's a lot of good things said about that Tokina 11-16, but do you guys reckon its right up there with the best of them, like the Nikon 14-24?
Steve
 
There is a genuine Nikon 14mm f2.8 prime lens and versions made by Sigma, Tamron and maybe others for full frame 35mm stills cameras, which may suit you. There are other brands to be found on eBay but I do not know if they are for the smaller digital sensor cameras only.

I can speak for the Sigma 14mm 1:2.8D Aspherical HSM as used by me on 35mm groundlgass adaptors. This lens was discontinued a few years back. Whether there is a successor, I do not know.

There are reviews for it on the internet. I found it to be a bit soft wide-open. From f5.6 to f11, it seemed to be in its best zone. It is a rectilinear lens which means straight edges remain straight despite the wide view but in the corners, objects become a bit stretchy as in round objects will become oval shaped. The Nikon I believe to also be a rectilinear lens.

There is a clip here which I shot as a test of a Mini35 hack to the then new Sony PMW-EX1 camera. It will give a very rough indication of what to expect from it. Ignore the soft corners. They are caused by the hack arrangement, not the Sigma lens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpm72LpoV0k

The image conferred to camera by the Mini35 is closer to 22mm width, rather than the wider image yielded by the current RED family sensors. You may observe a little brightness falloff in the corners at higher aperture numbers, maybe not. Groundglass adaptors aggravate any such tendency.

Unfortunately, at the time I posted the clip, one had to do tricky things to make 16:9 images appear in their correct aspect ratio. Since then, youtube lifted its game and now the clip displays as vertically stretched.


FOOTNOTE:

These lenses follow a similar design philosphy which means the front element is vulnerable to injury. When viewing through the camera, because the image view is wide and apparent distances are extended. The depth of field is fairly deep and the cue of soft focus on close objects as a warning is not so apparent. There is a tendency to be misled into approaching objects to the point of physical contact, stair rails being the worst offender.

The front cap on the Sigma is of two parts, a front cap which enables a view through then lens for focus adjustment and a cylindrical cap which protects the vulnerable front element from inadventant contact wioth objects during setting up. You need to remember to remove the cylindrical cap otherwise you will get a vignette, the worst.

This style of lens in some instances is described as being of "hybrid" construction. This means some of the optical elements are optical glass, others are optical plastic. The longevity of optical plastic will only be proven by the passage of real time.
 
Last edited:
Zeiss ZF 15mm looks alluring.
Preferrably the Duclos modified version.

zf2.jpg
 
I will say though, the 14-24 is a pretty hefty lens. I've had this lens since the day they were released and it's on my camera body 90 percent of the time.
 

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