Advice for someone who has picked a Scarlet over film school

[Gary Paul Walker]

I think theres also something to be said for which film school you go to. Courses differ in quality and usefulness from school to school. Like a camera, a degree in film can be a wasted investment if you're not getting out of it what you were hoping.

I went to film school, and much of the technical information I couldve learned elsewhere in different forums - I was ultimately dissapointed with this education, and thought that I really did waste my time somewhat. There was a flipside, however. Where and when I grew up, I wasn't surrounded with creative people, had few people to talk to about films (both good and bad) what university did do for me was put me in an environment with some like-minded individuals. I learned so much from being in a creative environment, sharing ideas about film, philosophy and anything else that was 'relevant' to that atmosphere.

If I had the choice now, I wouldve bought a Scarlet X. For a few reasons:
1. Im the sort of person who has the discipline to sit down with a new piece of kit and learn it inside out.
2. Now that I'm older I have the confidence to seek out creative people, rather than waiting for them to come to me
3. I realise that 4 years is much to long for me to wait to start making films (university constrained me in a way that i now regret)
4. Film school programs, in my experience, haven't catered to the way I want to make films (and as such I was a little lost right out of school)
and finally...
5. Taking in to account the global economy, the historical cost of making films etc. the Scarlet X is a steal at the price. Seriously, make all the arguments about accessories, media, lenses etc. It is the single most affordable way to purchase a camera for cinema.

Ultimately, everyone chooses their own path, with varying degrees of success. For every Robert Rodriguez, there's a John Smith who has a great camera, but nothing to point it at.
Education can be found everywhere, cameras can be found everywhere. If you're a driven, self-motivated, 'get it done' person. I say go and make movies right away. If you require a bit of structure, and carefully laid out teaching, go with the university. (dont think of structure as a negative - its something the self-motivated sometimes throw out of the window!)

 

[Kegan Sant]

Shoot me a PM when you get over to Toronto. Best of luck with your Scarlet purchase and your move.

Kegan

 

[Phil Holland]

I'll back Mr. Most here.

The education and knowledge will have to come from somewhere. School or self taught. Both roads have their pros and cons. The technical aspects of cinematography are all very well documented and with practice the operation of a camera (and cameras in general really) will become very natural. Composition, story telling, color theory, etc... These things can all be studied at a school, but you will need to experiment and practice to really learn and improve your abilities. In many ways, the camera is the easy part. The "rest of the stuff" is the stuff you'll be focusing on and dealing with for the rest of your life.

If I was starting from square one without much on set experience I certainly would recommend a summer film school program. They usually aren't that much money and you'll get a quick lesson of what it takes to make a production happen. You'll also get the opportunity to shoot your own short film. Some schools are better than others. Choose wisely. But from this observe what you can around you in terms of equipment and what people it takes to take an idea from concept to completion.

Currently I'm 32 right and have been working in the industry since 19. Self taught. Oddly I occasionally instruct and mentor students at film schools. There is certainly a very valid route there within schools. Some schools will put you in a better position to be hired right out of school (or even while in school), but it at the end of the day, it will be up to you do the work that's necessary to get the job and get the job done. As others have mentioned, seek the advice and heed to words of experienced working professionals. They have walked miles in the direction you're trying to go down and have invaluable knowledge that can help you improve. Seek out criticism from those individuals and be open minded when receiving those opinions.

I've been extremely fortunate to learn from working professionals on set. But I did everything in my power early on to get into those situations and sought out opportunities to learn from directors and directors of photography. Beyond learning from cinematographers; getting down and dirty with rigging, set dec, electric, etc... Learning those jobs and understanding those individuals concerns and perspectives has been extraordinarily useful in my professional career. I'm extremely grateful for these opportunities.

I'll also second Most's thoughts on communication. Without good communication skills you won't go far in the industry (or really any industry). Develop them. If you are looking to work in broadcast or motion pictures you will be part of a team. Figure out how to work with people of all different sorts. Beyond that, motion pictures are a very visual field and communication becomes part of storytelling. Looking, observing, and learning about how people interact will further your abilities in and out of frame.

The internet has opened up a lot of opportunities for those who want to be self taught, but at the end it's going to come down to an individual's willingness and drive. Learning how to learn is exceptionally important. Developing useful creative problem solving abilities and executing quality imagery at a high level consistently will come from practice, study, and knowledge.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Again, kudos to Mr. Most as he has nailed it. People like to point out that Steve Jobs, Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg all dropped out of college. That may be true but there are way more people who dropped out (or opted not to go) whom you have never heard of because they are working as waiters and baristas. All of us like to think we are as talented as those guys but....The truth is, I'd probably say DO NOT go to film school - but instead, go to a liberal arts college and study art, music, literature, philosophy, psychology, anthropology and economics. While you are there, take some online courses in filmmaking and get together with your friends and make student films. Be patient. Work hard. Your genius will surface.

BTW - this is the exact advice I'd give my own 22 year old son if he wanted to be a filmmaker. He doesn't, but he is about to graduate from a liberal arts college having gotten a broad ranging education, a degree in computer science, and having had a chance to contemplate the future he wants and how to get it. College - any college - is about setting the stage for life-long learning (it's not the only way to accomplish that, but it is a good way if you can afford it.) If you just want a "job" then go to a training program. This is what programs like REDucation will help with - targeted knowledge. But, every person benefits by having a much broader context of world experience in which to place this information.

Whatever you choose to do, good luck!!

 

[Nik Lachajczak]

"I've also noticed that I'm pretty lost when it comes to lenses, where is a good place to begin learning about them? I haven't found any websites that are very helpful."


Really? Wow.:`}

 

[Nik Lachajczak]

Sorry for last post Jarvis..not very usefull.ha!
I presume yr in Qld.
Pm/mail me if yr heading for Brisneyland. Happy to talk some basic lens shop
cheers
Nik

 

[Paul Ellington]

There is so much information online and also, cinematographer by in large share more than anyone else in this field. Shoot, and come to places like RedUser with questions, I will do my best with the knowledge I have achieved to date to help out. I think you made a wise choice. Scarlet = More work = more wisdom.

 

[Michael Pyon]

Hey Jarvis

I currently attend NYU's film school in Tisch and I just want to say that what you are doing is scary. I find that many people go to film school to learn about filmmaking along with film theories in order to analyze how a good film is made. However, that is not why I attend film school. The only reason I attend NYU is because of two things; connections and opportunities. The filmmaking is a collaborative effort which is why the credits roll for so long.

I can honestly say that everything I learned about filmmaking is mostly from watching films on my own and looking for styles by some fantastic directors. Not much more can be learned in film school and I'm fine with that. But I do want to also emphasize that it's all in the story and without a good story, the film will be terrible.

I don't really have much to say other than good luck, make connections, and hopefully I'll see you at a film festival one of these days.

Mike

 

[M Most]

I can honestly say that everything I learned about filmmaking is mostly from watching films on my own and looking for styles by some fantastic directors. Not much more can be learned in film school and I'm fine with that.

Not to harp on this, but as with many things in life, it's very difficult to appreciate something like education without perspective. You're still in school, so your view of what you're getting out of it is based more on impatience and anticipation than it will be once you've been through it and away from it long enough to develop that perspective. You will likely be surprised at how you look at this 10 years from now as opposed to the way you currently see it. What you're likely getting out of it isn't clear to you yet. Hopefully, in time, it will be..

 

[Jason Rudd]

My two cents:

Cameras will come and go. These days, it happens on a yearly schedule.

The people and experiences you make in college, are as the cliche goes, priceless.

Possessions will encumber you. Memories and experiences make you richer as a person and artist.

Let me put it this way. If I had a choice between going to college and getting a Scarlet... I would go to college... again!! .

 

[Elan Gunos]

Try both if you can. Take some intro filmmaking classes at a "reasonably" priced state or community college without buying into some bullshit degree, make education work for you, not the other way around.

 

[Brian Merlen]

what about doing both, is that an option? spend the cash on the camera gear, and take out loans for school? you'd definitely be one of the popular kids by owning a red in film school...people would line up to let you shoot their silly no budget indy films! probably won't pay well but you'd get a ton of practice on the camera...

ps film schools around my area are a lot more then a complete scarlet package is. you'd have to get an epic m and a ton of primes and lighting gear to even come close to the price of film schools for a 2 or 4 year degree. maybe the prices are cheaper in other countries but NYU and NYFA ain't cheap...

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Also regardless if you go to film school... GET INVOLVED. Get involved with forums, with professional workshops, with parties, with projects... everything. I've never worked at a job I applied for and I've never gone a month without work. Like it was said above, this is a collaborative industry, the best way people will get to know what you can do is to have seen your work or know someone who has worked with you. But this goes both ways. Don't be an ass and don't assume that everything you do won't get around, because for better or worse this industry is way too small to slip by unnoticed. Just as an example, an intern at a studio sent me an email the other day asking me a question , what I'm sure they didn't know was that the senior artist at that company is one of my friends also on IRC at the same time "Hey, one of your interns is having trouble with ____ might want to go give them a hand." This is one of the hardest thing I imagine to cultivate without going to a film school. One of the huge advantages film school graduates have is that they've already worked with 40 other people looking for work in the industry, you won't have that network of people who know people who can make introductions for you, so get ready to make a lot of your own introductions.

Just being responsible, reliable and eager to work hard will set you ahead of the vast majority of the pack. I think one of the most valuable classes in film school was the teacher who marked you absent if you were 5 minutes late, his theory being "If you're 5 minutes late to a 5 minute meeting then you might as well not have shown up." If you don't make call times, no amount of art history knowledge will salvage your reputation.

 

[daniel caruso]

I haven't read the entire posts, but I am coming out of a film school in April. My biggest advice would be to go to the school, take a tour, and see what it will give you. It may be more rewarding than you think. While I can't say all of my knowledge came from school the past three years, what I did receive from school was exposure. Exposure to many life situations because you are thrown into things and have to survive. I am fortunate enough to have had camera kits before school and build as I went through school, but I worked hard for them and it paid off. School, if it is a good one, will give you a lot more knowledge than you think, and you will be more prepared once you are out. I have grown a lot since I started in school and for life experience it was well worth it.

You get what you put into it, I can't say enough how many people say they study film and throw some director names around and think they are the next best thing. You have to have the skills to prove yourself, heck, I don't think I will be asked about my degree. Though it brought me to where I am today.

From my experience, school exposed me to rental houses, various on set positions through many projects we shot, shooting film both S16 and S35 (which is a huge must to know), people, classmates, teachers, these may lead to jobs or connections, as for me some has, gear, we have a place to book out light/grip gear so it saves money for shooting and you can see how gear works, working with others, meeting deadlines, and if you mess up its ok because everyone is learning on set. I have missed so many more but these come to mind. Basically what I am getting at is it all depends on what the school offers, what you put in, what you decide to do while your there (will you just party, or study film every night) and what you decide to take from your experience at school. From my experience, I would say take a tour, see if it will offer you anything, and perhaps still get a camera if you can afford to, and work/volunteer while at school. Good luck with your decision, anyway could be a good choice, it is how you approach that decision which will make the difference.

 

[Jarvis Alston]

Hey Mike Garrick,

Thanks very much for the comments. Thats exactly how I feel about the film courses, I'd rather spend the money on some equipment and teach myself. I learn better that way. And yes, I'm working "the mines" and money isn't really a problem for me, especially with the OT i'm doing right now. I think the 25K budget should be sufficient and I am on the exact same page as you, I've also been saving for 2 years of rent while I'm in toronto. I'm a canadian citizen and lived there last year. So I figure with some gear and two years of spare time I should be able to have a pretty good crack and getting some filmmaking experience.

Again thank you for the positive feedback. Much appreciated.

Jarvis

 

[Jarvis Alston]

Hello All,

Just want to say a HUGE thanks to everyone who has posted or commented on this topic. You're input is greatly greatly appreciated! I have decided that I will buy the Scarlet, I am 100% in my decision. I also have enough money in a Canadian bank account for 2 years rent for Toronto. I am a citizen there so I can easily find work and the opportunity to volunteer on sets and indies etc and not have to worry about paying rent will be a huge advantage I believe.

I will be doing some research into lenses but it sounds like a 11-16 tokina is probably the way to go.

I have read a few books on filmmaking: Robert rodriguez "rebel without a crew", Sidney Lummet "Making movies, "$30 film school" and I am just about to start "The Filmmakers Handbook". I will also be ordering a copy of "Name above the Title" as this book sounds extremely interesting. I love to read and its another great way for me to learn. I retain information a lot better this way.

I will be PMing a bunch of you to further discuss all things filmmaking.

I can't thank you all enough!! Cheers!

Jarvis

 

[Carlos Reyes]

11-16 tokina is a great option for wide angles but your gonna need a lot more than that

 

[Scott Crawley]

I will be doing some research into lenses but it sounds like a 11-16 tokina is probably the way to go.

Jarvis

If all you are shooting is Hunter S. Thompson and circus clowns you should be fine. I'd advise you to stay away from the ladies with that thing though.

Edit: While you are at the circus, you might be able to shoot the freak show too, it kinda depends upon your perspective. ;-|

 

[daniel caruso]

good luck jarvis, if you are around town once you get the camera you will have to come out with us in toronto, we want to plan a meet up in the new year, most likely when weather is nice. it would be great for you.

as a side note, if you have the money, do yourself a favor and buy PL cine glass. dont get caught up in the canon lenses, I will never shoot AF lenses, cant. If you want to do some serious work and make it look rich and professional, cine lenses will add to your technique and tools of producing a cinematic image. Red lenses are a good place to start. you could do a light zoom and add a 100mm or 85mm prime to it.

 

[Kegan Sant]

^ I second the PL lenses if you can get a RPZ like Daniel - at least to start. Also, agree with the meetup when you find yourself in town!

Kegan