Adobe support...

[Munthe]

You're right and you're wrong.

They are *shot* in those countries, almost exclusively because of great locations, cheap labor costs, lack of unionization, and incredible tax benefits. The films are almost always post-produced in Los Angeles. Check out those credits again. Camera teams are local. Editorial, VFX, Sound, and Finishing are LA.

And the Hollywood community is still an incredible place for innovation. Of course there is innovation and smart people doing cool work in other locations!! But LA is still far and away the biggest post-production market in the world, with the highest concentration of talent.

Remember... RED is only 40 miles away from LA...

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

Yeah, it's still the biggest place. No doubt. But when heavy special effects films like the classic studio blockbuster franchise Rambo does 100% of the digital visual effects in Bulgaria - that's a sign of things changing. Sure, it's cheaper. But it's not only that. It's better crafted and better work in general. Rambo is the best VFX work in realistic fluids and dynamics I've seen so far. There's only a few shots of what must be hundreds and hundreds of VFX shots that doesn't quite cut it - but that's a high score compared to a lot of the Hollywood competition.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Need some really slick Color time Adobe app though for RED, Premiere will not and I repeat WILL NOT cut it for color.

A grading app in CS would be great. That, and Linux support are the only major things I really want from CS4 or 5...

 

[Obin Olson]

wow this whole debate is getting me angery. C'mon folks we are chopping clips!!

Its not like our editor is going to create a visual effects shot!!

As long as you have good I/O and don't loose quality or resolution who cares what we cut on!

/rant over

 

[brandon herman]

A grading app in CS would be great....

It may not be as elaborate as some may want, but After Effects includes Synthetic Aperture, which has primary and secondary color correction. (Mattes can be done in After Effects, of course. Just make two layers of the same footage at different settings and mix to taste.) I haven't really used Synthetic Aperture too much; can someone elaborate on it's usefulness for serious grading?

 

[Rudi Herbert]

wow this whole debate is getting me angery. C'mon folks we are chopping clips!!

Its not like our editor is going to create a visual effects shot!!

As long as you have good I/O and don't loose quality or resolution who cares what we cut on!

/rant over

Exactly!!! Most people who don't make a living out of editing videos, and this is NOT intended as a jab to anyone on this discussion, don't fully understand what an editor truly is. Proper input/output, no quality loss, proper ingested footage management and intuitive interface to do what Moviolas and Kems did for years: cut, paste, dissolve. Done! At the end of the day, I see so much badly footage nowadays, including here on the forum, with off putting flow, wrong tempo and just bad timing and rythm, that I wonder if film makers really understand what editing and an editing program are really supposed to do....

 

[Rudi Herbert]

It may not be as elaborate as some may want, but After Effects includes Synthetic Aperture, which has primary and secondary color correction. (Mattes can be done in After Effects, of course. Just make two layers of the same footage at different settings and mix to taste.) I haven't really used Synthetic Aperture too much; can someone elaborate on it's usefulness for serious grading?

After Effects doesn't include Syth App by default, but it is an available plugin for it. It is called Color Finesse and nowadays, it even comes with an external 3-wheel console, much like what you find on Da Vinci's, etc. I have done SEVERAL projects with the AE/Color Finesse combo that went out to film projection and they looked GREAT. I had a chance to do some repeatable passes on both a Da Vinci, Inferno and a $3000 PC set up with Color Finesse and the results on an 18 meter/60 ft wide screen were undistinguishable from one another, save for the subtle tonal differences of each program, but quality wise, they were all equal...And oh yes, the Da Vinci and Inferno laid the finished master to tape real time and the Color Finesse/AE machine took 45 minutes to render the DPX sequence before going to tape, but hey, real time at a million bucks is something I personally can afford to pass on...for whatever is worth.

 

[Munthe]

wow this whole debate is getting me angery. C'mon folks we are chopping clips!!

Its not like our editor is going to create a visual effects shot!!

As long as you have good I/O and don't loose quality or resolution who cares what we cut on!

/rant over

No reason to get angry. I'm not only cutting. I'm working with a green screen based production pipeline and CS native support is great news for me. Adobe's AAF saves days of manual work and terra bytes of disk storage even on the smallest projects I work with. There's Automatic Duck for FCP and Avid to get timelines in and out of compositors but that's not half as great as the Adobe PPro/PS/AE integration with cut and paste functionality between apps.

Exactly!!! Most people who don't make a living out of editing videos, and this is NOT intended as a jab to anyone on this discussion, don't fully understand what an editor truly is. Proper input/output, no quality loss, proper ingested footage management and intuitive interface to do what Moviolas and Kems did for years: cut, paste, dissolve. Done! At the end of the day, I see so much badly footage nowadays, including here on the forum, with off putting flow, wrong tempo and just bad timing and rythm, that I wonder if film makers really understand what editing and an editing program are really supposed to do....

Completely agree. One of the things I really like with Premiere Pro is that it doesn't try to have a lot of cool FX features. It's editing centric. There's less of the usual RT FX sales talk around it. It kind of leaves that part to AE where it can be done so much better by the right talent. Sure it's got some basic garbage mattes and some basic correction tools needed to save the occasional offline flaws - like underexposed shots.

My focus is completely on I/O and I've yet so see an NLE that does that better than Premiere Pro in a completely digital workflow - lack of Kodak KeyCode is not such a big deal for me anymore.

But basic editing is also changing. The need for strong and fast previz is essential on many projects. A film like Sin City will not be cut in the same basic linear way as Sex in the City. A "cut" may well consist of background/actor/actor/foreground to achieve a shot that will be part of a sequence of shots. Ever tried to cut an entire film shot green screen using only your imagination trying to visualize the final result? Almost impossible. Once the background plates is in place you have to go back and reedit the whole thing. The timing will be off since you had no way of guessing how the human eye would register each shot and how the lines and movements work and the time needed to register them correctly.

 

[Joel Kaye]

But when heavy special effects films like the classic studio blockbuster franchise Rambo does 100% of the digital visual effects in Bulgaria - that's a sign of things changing.

Gotta agree. FX houses have sister houses in India now. Animation has been outsourced to Korea and the Philippines. I think Family Guy (or some similar show) was written and keyframed in Hollywood and all the actual work was done offshore.

The few key players may remain in Hollywood but the brute force required for VFX can and is being outsourced. Disney has long outsourced animation. I'm not sure it's fair to say Hollywood is where it's really happening. It's where the deal gets done.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

But when heavy special effects films like the classic studio blockbuster franchise Rambo does 100% of the digital visual effects in Bulgaria - that's a sign of things changing.

Bulgaria - You'll never wanna leave...

* * *

I didn't know it was 100 %. I know *someone* who worked on that, the person recently quit the company because of unbearable work\payment conditions. :matrix:

"Exploitation.... is not good for meee".


* * *


Rambo was nice, otherwise. :bleh:

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Gotta agree. FX houses have sister houses in India now. Animation has been outsourced to Korea and the Philippines. I think Family Guy (or some similar show) was written and keyframed in Hollywood and all the actual work was done offshore.

I'm fairly sure that the Simpsons movie was done like this. I think they did it with AKOM, a South Korean animation company, and Rough Draft, who have both South Korean and Hollywood studios.

 

[Jonas Nyström]

And maybe this will get the Apple people going.

 

[conrad gaunt]

...
But LA is still far and away the biggest post-production market in the world, with the highest concentration of talent.

Remember... RED is only 40 miles away from LA...

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

I thought that was Bollywood?

 

[M Most]

I thought that was Bollywood?

"Bollywood" represents an entire country. "Hollywood" is one city.

I agree with what Lucas said, with the only exception being visual effects work. Large amounts of that work is done in various places throughout the world today, including London, Wellington NZ, San Francisco, and Vancouver, among others, all at the highest level. But he is quite right when we're talking about "core" post production, namely editing, sound editing and mixing, and digital intermediate work. That is very concentrated in the Los Angeles area, especially for studio pictures.

 

[laguun]

The trend today moves to a globalised and standard-software approach.

We have the "big guns here", speedgrade DI, discreet systems etc - but see more and more high-class work shifting towards the 2K/4K desktop softwares, editing, DI and VFX.

The trend is already completed in the 3D animation space - standard softwares dominate the market, and all of the packages which costed 100.000 (as the earlier maya (pa/explore) and xsi (softimage)) lost their value down to $.$$$.

The same happens right now for DI and 2K/4K editing.

L.A. btw is certainly a center for movieproduction - however the 1000+ seats of software as bollywood buy at once are rather rare even in L.A.

regarding the NLE-editors: most of them, including avid, are still in their infancy.

offline will go away, and 1080p/2K/4K online, editing and colorcorrection will be desktop standard within months/years, no matter if adobe, cineform etc.

networked production as well is pretty basic right now. stuff as iridas remote collaboration, adobe clipnotes, apple FCserver, eyeon generation, Avid Interplay etc are just the early steps.

Also to go away is the seperation between editing and several parts of compositing and colorcorection - systems as discreet smoke or sgo mystika demonstrate that already quite impressive - and are pretty inexpensive meanwhile.

of the several niche players in post, most will not survice or be total niche. once the desktop software reaches "good enough", economies of scale begin - adobe is certainly in an excellent starting position now: 4K, crossplatform, a plenthora of plugins... its amazing how fast it munches through 4K online data at 10/12bit RGB - which FCP sadly still cant do.

 

[Jason Diamond]

As far as im concerned MB Looks is a must have.
it handles even proxy transcodes amazingly, esp because it work in 32bit float so it preserves all your over and unders so its reclaimable and doesnt throw it all away to clipped garbage.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Looks is sweet, especially in After Effects. I've had some weird issues with Magic Bullet in FCP, but in AE, it seems to be a great tool.

My CC in AE would consist of Magic Bullet Looks, Colorista, Color Finesse (which does come in the AE Production bundle), and AE levels.

 

[Ariana]

"Bollywood" represents an entire country. "Hollywood" is one city.

Bollywood is Bombay/Mumbai.

Just like Hollywood to many means American films, Bollywood means Indian movies. Bollywood movies are also popular in many other countries just like Hollywood/American movies.

 

[Munthe]

Bollywood is huge but it's still nothing compared to the sheer numbers Hollywood productions can pull in. When was the last time a Bollywood feature did $1.000.000.000 at the box office? The sound of a light saber is part of our universal language.

(Hmm, on second thought Star Wars is a bad example since it's made by an independent company in the Bay area and shot on a sound stage in England. By a guy who hates film...and Hollywood.)

Bollywood has always been huge but kind of technically still in the 50's. That changed just a few years back and they are getting really technically sophisticated. I've seen some jaw dropping VFX coming out of Bollywood lately.

 

[Jonas Nyström]

So what's the point..? (last two post). How is this related with Adobe support for R3D-files? Don't mess up the the Recon threads.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Yes, let's get back on track because this week will be a big testing week for me as well as others on how well Premiere will handle Red workflow. I will be curious to see how things all shake out.

I have the trial version of Premiere, and will go into it with an open mind. If I find that I can work with it, come up with a solid Red workflow, and it runs smoothly on the Mac, I might be sold for certain jobs.