ADOBE Stepped up....who's next?

[Hrvoje Simic]

How many DIs have you worked on??

Thomas...I think the answer is pretty apparent based on my posts in this thread, which is the same reason for a few undermining responses.

It is known that every complex creative workflow, especially high budget one consists of a large staff, where naturally everyone deserves the credit.

You didn't respond to my question. Are the "assistants, engineers, data management, editorial, QC, etc" turning the knobs ?
As if - grading the footage? It just seems strange for a non DI expert like me.

 

[Martin B.]

I have a technical question, sorry I cannot comment too much on the recent debate that's bursting the thread, but my ignorance precedes me.
So, there's gonna be an adobe cs4 support for RED raw footage. Does anyone can tell what kind of machine will that require to work? Just curious about it.

Regards.

 

[Chris Parker]

Martin. I believe the Adobe native workflow is designed to be scalable. So, you could work on a laptop if you bumped down your working resolution to the point (it goes as low as 1/16th I believe) where you are happy with performance (ie. realtime). If you then want to 'bump up' your resolution, simply do that to accomplish some fine work (colorizing, fx, etc.?) at the expense of performance, based on the machine you are working on. That is how it works I believe, and it is a genius solution to offer that immediate scalability of resolution for your current need, and machine limitation.

The only question I have is regarding the final output stage? How is Adobe handling this? If I wanted to export my .r3d timeline as a full quality HD codec, what is that process?

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Martin. I believe the Adobe native workflow is designed to be scalable. So, you could work on a laptop if you bumped down your working resolution to the point (it goes as low as 1/16th I believe) where you are happy with performance (ie. realtime). If you then want to 'bump up' your resolution, simply do that to accomplish some fine work (colorizing, fx, etc.?) at the expense of performance, based on the machine you are working on. That is how it works I believe, and it is a genius solution to offer that immediate scalability of resolution for your current need, and machine limitation.

The only question I have is regarding the final output stage? How is Adobe handling this? If I wanted to export my .r3d timeline as a full quality HD codec, what is that process?

8 bit if you export from premiere
much more bits through after effects, gues 16 bit

best result will be----reopen timeline in ae, do titling, comps etc. and exprt from there.

 

[Mike Harrington]

8 bit if you export from premiere
much more bits through after effects, gues 16 bit

where are you getting this info....
are you saying premiere will only output 8 bit video?
I know I can do 12 bit with cineform....don't know about other codecs, but I would assume some of the other high bit rate ones would output full bit depth....depending on what output codecs you have onboard...

what would you output from after effects that would be higher bit depth...and video... not image formats...that PPro could not do?

not trying to offend here...but if that was the case(and I know I can export high bit depth cineform avi right outa PPro) i would be somewhat surprised
unless it is a plugin limitation on the raw conversion...

 

[Thomas Mathai]

Thomas...I think the answer is pretty apparent based on my posts in this thread, which is the same reason for a few undermining responses.

It is known that every complex creative workflow, especially high budget one consists of a large staff, where naturally everyone deserves the credit.

You didn't respond to my question. Are the "assistants, engineers, data management, editorial, QC, etc" turning the knobs ?
As if - grading the footage? It just seems strange for a non DI expert like me.

Well you think the colorist alone can do it all? If all you are interested in is turning the knobs, then just get Colorista or Color Finesse and be happy.

If you want the full package deal, then be prepared for what's involved.

What you see as undermining responses, I see as people who do this day after day telling you why you won't expect a full grading system for 4 figures anytime soon.

I think Apple can turn Color into a complete grading system at the 4 figure price point if they can turn Final Cut Server into a proper editorial conform tool, add calibration tools, allow true network rendering and provide command line scripting capabilities.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

where are you getting this info....
are you saying premiere will only output 8 bit video?
I know I can do 12 bit with cineform....don't know about other codecs, but I would assume some of the other high bit rate ones would output full bit depth....depending on what output codecs you have onboard...

what would you output from after effects that would be higher bit depth...and video... not image formats...that PPro could not do?

not trying to offend here...but if that was the case(and I know I can export high bit depth cineform avi right outa PPro) i would be somewhat surprised
unless it is a plugin limitation on the raw conversion...

http://provideocoalition.com/index....ions_for_red_announced_from_apple_adobe_avid/


from mike curtis

Adobe

Mike (last name missed, apologies) from Adobe got up and discussed some upcoming FREE updated features for CS4 that will ship as a free point release to existing CS4 users/purchases probably in December or so - NATIVE R3D support, up to 4K, in Premiere or After Effects. 8 bit output from Premiere, up to 32 bit output in After Effects. Since they interleave so nicely, edit in Premiere, but do final render output from AE. There is a global setting for playback resolution, 1K works even on (some) laptops, and 2K works in realtime (24p) on some Vista boxes. Mac and Windows support on these features for CS4 as well.
_____________________________________

but mike curtis could be wrong

 

[Martin B.]

Martin. I believe the Adobe native workflow is designed to be scalable. So, you could work on a laptop if you bumped down your working resolution to the point (it goes as low as 1/16th I believe) where you are happy with performance (ie. realtime). If you then want to 'bump up' your resolution, simply do that to accomplish some fine work (colorizing, fx, etc.?) at the expense of performance, based on the machine you are working on. That is how it works I believe, and it is a genius solution to offer that immediate scalability of resolution for your current need, and machine limitation.

Yes, it seems like an excellent choice to work depending of the real possibilities at hand. Anyway, what seems to be essential to use CS4 is to go from the XP to Vista, isn't it?

Thanks for your answer.

Hoping to have any news about the upgrade soon.

 

[Joe Carney]

where are you getting this info....
are you saying premiere will only output 8 bit video?
I know I can do 12 bit with cineform....don't know about other codecs, but I would assume some of the other high bit rate ones would output full bit depth....depending on what output codecs you have onboard...

what would you output from after effects that would be higher bit depth...and video... not image formats...that PPro could not do?

not trying to offend here...but if that was the case(and I know I can export high bit depth cineform avi right outa PPro) i would be somewhat surprised
unless it is a plugin limitation on the raw conversion...

I'm pretty sure Cineform replaces Premiers rendering engine with their own. That wouldn't be the case with the R3d plugin.
But I could be wrong.

 

[Mike Harrington]

I'm pretty sure Cineform replaces Premiers rendering engine with their own. That wouldn't be the case with the R3d plugin.
But I could be wrong.

your right about that...but I'm sure natively PPro does more then 8 bit....
hence the options for either 8 bit or maximum bit depth....

there may be a limitation with the plugin that will only decode 8 it within PPro...

i guess only Red can tell us....until we get it of course

 

[Salem Kapic]

yea but:

Adobe plugin update 20. Nov. 2008:

We've been working hard on the Adobe plug-in, and focusing on creating a
solid workflow that encompasses Premiere Pro and After Effects. We're
almost there, but there are a few tweaks that we want to the make to the
plug-in before we release it. In addition, there is going to be an After
Effects update out in the next couple of weeks which is essential to our
ability to create a really good workflow for RED files.

 

[Matthew Riggieri]

Look apple posted fcp workflow update

 

[nw42]

But unfortunately, the market dynamics just don't exist for a "low-cost" high-end dedicated color grading system that can successfully compete and win against Apple...

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

hmm - don't agree - I come from a 3D graphics & compositing background, extending service towards finishing - owning the necessary hardware to crunch big numbers and do colorcritical monitoring - I like the flexibility and power of my compositing software but miss a powerful color grading option ontop of it...

Like the market for editing expanded over the last years and the price for prof. NLE's dropped also finishing becomes interesting for a larger audience...

You are right - Color Grading is a complex beast and managing huge data sets and color critical monitoring isn't easy but there are lot's of 3d and compositing artist's out there with knowhow and fast hardware who are wanting the tools cutters already have today...

I think Scratch is on a good way - half the way between the big iron boxes and the mass quantity desktop software of the future...

For sure also in the future will be a demand for "systems" that work reliable and with the lastest highend features...

But, who will master to sell all this "Photoshop" boxes to thousands upon thousands of people just willing to edit their photos?

Would I buy a Scratch license for 10K at the moment? Hmm what is the pricing for Toxic or Fusion or Maya or 3dsmax? That are packages we freelancers alerady buy...

curious about the future ;-)

nw42