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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Adobe & open format for digital cinema data!

If Adobe will announce RED as a one of supporting partners of the new RAW standard then Jim really will go in to the history books as a Father of Digital Movie.
I can’t believe what I am reading!!

At minimum Adobe is not in the cell phone business, we can count on years of continuous support.
 
It seems to me that Adobe is beginning to gain ground on Apple much like Apple was gaining ground on Avid a few years back. I'm pretty entrenched in my FCP and don't really want to learn yet another system (having switched from Avid years ago) but, I'm listening and hearing a LOT of Adobe talk lately. Apple really should have shown up this year, cause without them or Avid around, I think a lot of people may be tempted to drop by Adobe's booth who would not have otherwise since they would have been sniffing around Apple.
Oh, and just to add to the possible Red/Adobe connection conspiracy theory, I notice Graeme didn't respond to my request for his opinion on this. You'd think this discussion would be right in his wheel house... hmmmm...
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OPIUM REHAB ADVICE
 
Andrew said:
If Adobe will announce RED as a one of supporting partners of the new RAW standard ...
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Andrew, Adobe does not have to be a partner as long as Red SDK is openly available. I have asked Red several times that if Red SDK will be openly available (meaning publicly, much like Adobe SDK), but never gotten any response.

If Red's SDK is publicly available (and they don't want people to reverse engineer their compression data) anybody can write an import plugin for Adobe software (After Effects and Premiere) that can read in R3D's files and load them.

Heck, even I can write that plugin for Adobe import if the format of R3D file is available publicly :biggrin:
 
Ethan Cooper said:
It seems to me that Adobe is beginning to gain ground on Apple much like Apple was gaining ground on Avid a few years back.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I've been saying too. Adobe is going to do to FCP what FCP did to Avid, unless both of them start paying more attention to their core audience. When the BBC picked CS3 over FCP, that was the turning point where I started to look at it seriously again.

Premiere's always been the freebie, giveaway, bundled-with-the-Dazze application. But Adobe's capable of making PhotoShop and InDesign and Illustrator and Flash and AfterEffects, so -- now that they've turned their attention into turning Premiere into a comparable world-class app, things only get better.

I used Premiere from verson 4.2 up to 6.0, then gave up on it and moved on. But I just bought CS3 a few months ago and am very pleasantly surprised. Adobe's gonna be a major, major player.
 
Barry Green said:
When the BBC picked CS3 over FCP, that was the turning point where I started to look at it seriously again.
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No way, for what part of their workflow?? Nice to know people are starting to give it some respect, CS3 is much improved on old versions.

I have been a Premiere user or 5 years, one of the loyal followers...:bleh:
 
Joofa said:
Heck, even I can write that plugin for Adobe import if the format of R3D file is available publicly :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Judging by your posts, you could probably write the codec from scratch using ones and zeros!

I suspect the SDK will include a 'black box' that does most of the actual R3D processing and spits out a file. We can't be trusted to debayer.
 
I have used Adobe and Apple products together and I like the latest version Adobe CS3 more than FCP. For one thing FCP has limited native support for plugins, until FxPlug came along in 5.1.2, and FxPlug is a general SDK not necessarily tied to FCP, for e.g., could be used in Apple Motion, etc. FxScript for FCP was existing before, but it is a script-based language that "stays" inside FCP, and is only useful for certain tasks. I think Graeme Nattress filters for FCP were made in FxScript. Where as Adobe had powerful SDKs for After Effects and Premiere. FCP used to understand Adobe AE SDK, but I think now they have dropped the support. Additionally, Adobe has a Javascript based scripting language also. Stu Maschwitz's filters to accompany his book DV Rebel's Guide were written in Adobe Script.

A powerful new feature in Adobe CS3 is that Media Core plugins (Effects API for AE) can now be used directly with Premiere without rewriting those plugins -- i.e., same effects can be shared between AE and Premiere -- very powerful.

Though, one can use Quicktime SDK with FCP, but then Quicktime SDK can be used with any application, even Adobe products. In addition, Adobe provides its own SDK for importers/exporters for full 32 bit float support upto 4096 x 4096, even allowing one to change the default rendering sequence (I think Cineform uses that) and taking over full control of rendering.

I don't think FCP comes anywhere close to SDK support as compared to Adobe products.
 
CrewPix.com said:
Judging by your posts, you could probably write the codec from scratch using ones and zeros!
Click to expand...

Funny CrewPix :biggrin:

Interestingly, I did once program in ones and zeros! And, I am not talking about Assembly language, but real machine language -- real 1's and 0's. I had this Atari 800 XL computer (very similar to Commodore 64) and it had only a variant of GW Basic on it. I was writing my own game in Basic for that computer and I wanted speed which Atari's processor and Basic was not giving me. I did notice that Atari's basic had no support for Assembly language, however, it did allow jumping to an arbitrary address. Therefore, I would code my routines in 1's and 0's with Atari's machine language, and using Poke command put them in the designated memory area and then jump to that address and then Atari Basic would be on steroids !!!

CrewPix.com said:
I suspect the SDK will include a 'black box' that does most of the actual R3D processing and spits out a file. We can't be trusted to debayer.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. I think this is what Red's SDK will do and act as a black box. Though I will be really happy if their SDK provides a mechanism of access to Raw data before Debayer also so that we can manipulate data to our liking if we do not want Red's default demosacing/debayering.
 
Christopher Grant Harvey said:
No way, for what part of their workflow?? Nice to know people are starting to give it some respect, CS3 is much improved on old versions.
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The BBC is transitioning all of their Factual Studios productions to P2, and Adobe added native MXF support that made it the choice for the BBC. It's my understanding that they're going to be using CS3 for all Factual Studios productions.

This was the buzz at IBC '07; haven't heard any updates since then.
 
Joofa said:
I think this is what Red's SDK will do and act as a black box. Though I will be really happy if their SDK provides a mechanism of access to Raw data before Debayer also so that we can manipulate data to our liking if we do not want Red's default demosacing/debayering.
Click to expand...
SDK and the documentation of the file format are the key components to continue reds success in the field in the postproduction studios. Adobe is a much better fit to red than apple: Its crossplatform (FCS isnt), its 4K (FCS isnt), it has 16bit RGB color (FCS is 8bit limited in RGB) and if now native raw is integrates, adobe CS3 is the perfect match.

I was always sceptical regarding premiere (i think we have ~8 licences here, starting with the 1.0 iirc), but i have to admit that since CS3 i have been convinced that Adobe really got it right with Premiere Pro now. That AE filters now work inside of PPro (and in 16bit) is fantastic and even in our multi-$$$.$$$ system seats environment CS3 ic shoosen for many tasks, not only for blu-ray.
 
laguun said:
SDK and the documentation of the file format are the key components to continue reds success in the field in the postproduction studios. Adobe is a much better fit to red than apple: Its crossplatform (FCS isnt), its 4K (FCS isnt), it has 16bit RGB color (FCS is 8bit limited in RGB) and if now native raw is integrates, adobe CS3 is the perfect match.

I was always sceptical regarding premiere (i think we have ~8 licences here, starting with the 1.0 iirc), but i have to admit that since CS3 i have been convinced that Adobe really got it right with Premiere Pro now. That AE filters now work inside of PPro (and in 16bit) is fantastic and even in our multi-$$$.$$$ system seats environment CS3 ic shoosen for many tasks, not only for blu-ray.
Click to expand...

If the next version (CS4) has 32bit float in both Premier and AE, that would be something. If Sony doesn't announce something special soon, I may finally switch. I almost did last year, but they came out with 32bit float features and support for 10bit 4:2:2. I would still use them for audio mixing for video.
 
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