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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Achieving a realistic fist fight scene

Charles Angus said:
I wouldn't shoot low speed, personally. It can sometimes look a little slapstick...
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In the tests that we did, shooting 22fps with the actors going about 90% of full speed worked out really well. If the actors tried to speed up their choreography, it got sloppier and we could only use shorter segments of takes.

20 or 18fps did start to look pretty funny though. I have the test footage still I think so I'll try to post it.
 
I think the biggest thing missing here is that GOOD SOUND design is really what will ultimately sell a punch, kick, what have you. Without good sound, none of the action will ever feel real. Make sure you spend a lot of time in post doing foley for hits, clothes rustling, breathing, all that stuff. Otherwise nothing has any weight to it.

If you listen to fight scenes in Bourne and such, they have great sound design. The funny thing is that if you actually stop and pay attention to the sounds they use, it's totally over the top and cheesy. But when you're caught up in the moment, no one will ever question it.
 
I think it's personal taste. Definitely don't want your actors slowing their motions down, but you want to use perspective cheats as much as possible. Remember a puch straight on the to the face from an over the shoulder can be six inches away or more and no one would ever know. So the angles of the hit are key. "Hong Kong" style shooting basically will follow the choreography shot by shot. While things may have changed, the traditional method is to just capture each action or actions series from it's best angle and it leads into the other actions, but the reason you do this is precicely for the idea of cheating the perspective for each shot.

It's really going to depend on your stunt people. But just remember it's never worth anyone getting hurt, you can cheat all this.

Shooting at 22 frames is usually pretty safe without people noticing. Below that you really need to be careful or you run the risk of it "showing" too much.

=
 
Chris Kennedy said:
To me it looks better shooting more telephoto than wide, also intentionally breaking the 180 w/ handheld.
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These are good ideas if you want the audience to "feel" the fight, rather than "show" the fight. The Batman Begins fist fights were shot all telephoto, handheld, random cuts ignoring all rules. Personally, I prefer the smoother,
"show" option, as Spielberg films, keeping everything in the frame. But both work in their own ways. Interestingly, Nolan widened up quite a bit in The Dark Knight.
 
"Shooting at 22 frames is usually pretty safe without people noticing."

Can the R1 dial in 21fps?

I would of course add that the story reason for the fight needs to be solid.

The interwebs are full of people punching and kicking one another without a reason, or a reason why we should give a damn.

Fights need to reveal character. If they don't they should be cut or rewritten.

They should also add new situations and elements we haven't seen (much) before. Better to spend more time on the script than the punching. Or you'll be beating yourself up for nothing.
 
Tim Sutherland said:
In the tests that we did, shooting 22fps with the actors going about 90% of full speed worked out really well. If the actors tried to speed up their choreography, it got sloppier and we could only use shorter segments of takes.

20 or 18fps did start to look pretty funny though. I have the test footage still I think so I'll try to post it.
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Stunt coordinators have their own personal formulas for undercranks, but most of the ones I've worked with seem to prefer something around 21-22 fps for most sequences. They will vary this based on the specific shot and the particular performers and their capabilities.

As others have mentioned here, a good stunt coordinator is really key to shooting a believable fight sequence. Fight sequences can go from looking very realistic to very comical quite quickly if they aren't handled correctly, no matter how adept the editor is.
 
Joshua Brown said:
Intersting, by the time I finished downloading the clip, it said it was 27mb...
and it's unplayable by either Quicktime or VLC.

-J.A.Brown
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NVM, I just downloaded it again and all is right with the world. The third sequence when he winces as he comes back from the first punch is good... maybe have him do it in reaction to the punch as it's happening instead of directly afterward. But I'm really liking it so far.

-J.A.Brown
 
Joshua Brown said:
NVM, I just downloaded it again and all is right with the world. The third sequence when he winces as he comes back from the first punch is good... maybe have him do it in reaction to the punch as it's happening instead of directly afterward. But I'm really liking it so far.

-J.A.Brown
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We shot the project in late February or March, and it's a huge undertaking of Day for Night photography, fight choreography, and a bunch of CG and interface design.

Everyone working on it is doing so in their spare time, but when it's complete, I'll definitely post it.
 
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