These are not the monitors you're looking for... move along.
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A Response To Jim Jannard and 1080P
- Thread starter Steve Sherrick
- Start date
These are not the monitors you're looking for... move along.
Gunleik Groven
REDuser Sponsor
Sounded sexy, though... -
Erwin Vanderhoydonks
Well-known member
Well I think it is the same in Belgium. Here we have cable and satellite, but it is all 16x9 PAL. But no HDTV. Many people still have a 4x3 CRT, and they can watch 16x9 programs and DVD's. Many people have a HD Ready LCD/Plasma screen. This was a very Big mistake, but people have them and they still work. Why buy a FullHD LCD/LED/Plasma if the other one still works.
Blu-Ray, what ? Do we have to buy a new player ? And also a new screen ? We just got one. Will we see the difference ? How much ? But why buy a Bly-Ray if we can download my show and movies from the internet ? They are just fine.
I think they look crap and I can't watch them.
For the moment I still use our 4x3 CRT until is crashes or, and now comes the tricky one, when I got my RED Scarlet Fixed 8x. Then I can move forward to FullHD. Than I can justify a new screen and player. But many people still buy DVD's, not Blu-Rays.
For many people it's a BIG investment moving from there current setup to FullHD/Blu-Ray. And if they do it now, within the coming years, we will see 4K displays, but not in our living rooms.
People how have a passion for movies, they have a LCD projector (1024x768 or 1280x1024) and they will not move to a 4K projector within 5 years. To expensive I think. They will buy a BIG FullHD screen with a Blu-Ray player.
4K cinema --> YES, and very soon.
4K in our houses --> not yet I think, but I can be wrong.
When RED delivers there EPIC's and Scarlet's to the world, not to the mass, more and more moviemakers will drop there DSLR and switch to RED. DSLR is for the Web, and they will look much better made with RED. :sifone:
Gunleik Groven
REDuser Sponsor
- Thread starter
- #265
Steve Sherrick
Well-known member
$65,000
Jeff Coatney
Well-known member
You have no idea!
I was actually told once that I was not their target market because I was interested in the image quality, not the interactivity.
Very true. I've worked on a few of them.
Jeff Coatney
Well-known member
TVs themselves might disappear in 10 years.
TV kills the Radio star
Internet kills TV
You are correct, sir.
Physical-media players will disappear first, then Television sets, then dedicated gaming consoles. We'll have 4K monitors with interactive gaming hardware interfaces (for motion tracking and control) and all content will stream on-demand in resolutions up to 4K via satellite, cellular-data net and fiber-optic cable. The first steps are being taken now and the time to fully implement could be as short as 10 years or as long as 15 years.
All cineplex venues will be 4K minimum, some 8K IMAX style large format houses will flourish. There will be no physical media authoring except as archival product (maybe*). All content will be capable of being authored at the consumer-level desktop and uploaded to the cloud, which is what we'll call the internet then.
The cost of doing all this will become exponentially cheaper to implement versus the cost of maintaining the legacy infrastructure, which will be taken down and recycled. The file formats that we know now will be replaced by much higher efficiency, lower data rate, yet higher resolution, multi-axis stochastic hexachromatic color modeling (it will be called something else, however) that provides much higher perceived resolutions and could carry holographic metadata for holographic display. One method of archiving* such data could use a technology similar in concept to the 3D laser cube portrait vendors in Las Vegas, which scan your face and render it inside a glass cube in three dimensions using lasers.
The future will come to us at higher resolutions, yet at lower data rates, on higher bandwidth systems and while professionals will still exist, the line between "professional" and "consumer" in terms of authoring will utterly disappear. We'll shoot using "resolution-agnostic" plenoptic-lens 3D cameras and we'll be able to paint-out everything in the frame and replace it with whatever we want using 3D assets from the cloud. We will be able to slim ourselves down in vacation videos and be seen wearing the latest clothes from our favorite stores and designers-- all of which will be legion-- thanks to the cloud.
There will be an over-arching sphere of popularity - the zeitgeist-- but there will also rise virtual regional spheres of popularity and they will have their own celebrity, economy and cultural touchstones... micro economies... distributed cultural networks, castes, political ideologies... religions... here's where the real money will be made for the filmmaker- serving the niche of their virtual market, gaining momentum and breaking through into the zeitgeist. Awareness, ubiquity, over-saturation and finally anonymity and all within a day.
Anyone paying close attention to the state-of-art, bleeding edge technology being developed in universities, industry and in military research right now can tell you, all of this is not very far away.
From my perspective, the rate at which professionals should utterly abandon 1080p authoring is an exponential curve that we are already two thirds of the way into. Therefore: Run, do not walk, from 1080p acquisition. It is a technology that has already been selected for extinction, we should bite the bullet now and push beyond it. Cling to it at your peril.
*We may be beyond "archiving" as we know it and into the phase known as "living-data", where data is indexed and moving dynamically in the background (in the surplus bandwidth that exists between peak demand cycles) through the cloud, being written and erased several times over its lifespan and if lost, then resurrected via a kind of information "time-travel", where the last generation of storage hardware is mined before its recycled. Lifespan of physical media in this phase could be a year or two max.
Francesco Bonomo
Well-known member
Nice job on the follow-up article, Steve, very interesting read..
Deanan, while I think you may be absolutely right (and it could actually take less than 10 years), one thing I can't help thinking is that the situation and progress in the US is not the same as other countries or areas of the world. In Europe there are huge differences in broadband services (regarding speed, availability and prices) depending the country you're in, and services like Netflix are not even available in most places. HDTV (and sometimes it's barely 1080p) is still very expensive and not available everywhere. That could change very rapidly, and I surely hope so, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "future" could be around the corner for some people, and a little further down the road for many others.
TVs themselves might disappear in 10 years.
TV kills the Radio star
Internet kills TV
Deanan, while I think you may be absolutely right (and it could actually take less than 10 years), one thing I can't help thinking is that the situation and progress in the US is not the same as other countries or areas of the world. In Europe there are huge differences in broadband services (regarding speed, availability and prices) depending the country you're in, and services like Netflix are not even available in most places. HDTV (and sometimes it's barely 1080p) is still very expensive and not available everywhere. That could change very rapidly, and I surely hope so, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "future" could be around the corner for some people, and a little further down the road for many others.
Michael Shilnov
Active member
Steve, are you saying that RED is planning to go consumer?
Gunleik Groven
REDuser Sponsor
More like: Distribution of content...
If you're happy with doing that, and you feel that many others are doing the same thing, isn't that a bit at odds with the notion that everyone is going to demand 4K in the home?
From your perspective, at least as you just stated it, professionals should utterly abandon shooting with cameras until plenoptic lenses that capture light fields are available.
From my perspective, professionals should use tools that can create the products they need to deliver, with a consideration for what's available to do that best given today's technology, the budget involved, the creative intent, and the physical shooting conditions. If that means using something that is recording 1080p, that's fine if it best suits the above requirements. If it means something a bit better, like a Red for instance, can be used and still meet those requirements, that's another, most likely better choice. But as you stated, nothing is forever, and "future proofing" is a very amorphous concept. Tomorrow's 4K will be today's 1080p.
Jannard
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Mike... I think the point you are missing is that 1080P is a backwards step from the previous acquisition standard.
Jim
For features, yes. For everything else, not necessarily.
Tom Lowe
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Mike, my point is that I watch everything on my laptop at 720p download or stream from the net, and everything on my desktop at 1080p. Right now, I play certain PC games at 2560 x 1400, as well, on my 27-inch LCD. A whole lot of young people watch all their content on computers now, barely venturing into the living room to watch legacy TV. And obviously, what the young people are doing today has repercussions for the near future.
The idea is, it's actually easier to start viewing 4K material on a PC or Mac with a 4K LCD than it is to have a 4K TV. As noted earlier, most of us were viewing "1080p" videos (Apple trailers, for example) on our computers long before we had 1080p TV or Bluray.
Peter Chang mentioned that some of the newer video games like Crysis 2 will have 4K resolution settings, so this could further help to push 4K desktop setups. Not to mention video editing and Photoshop editing at 4K for photographers. All of these will be tied to the computer, not a TV.
Jeff Coatney
Well-known member
Mike, you are far too bright and far too savvy to be the last Post professional to see which way the wind is blowing. Don't make a strategic blunder by thinking too tactically about this issue. Just look down the road a bit and don't sign any leases or buy anything that locks you into a 1080 architecture.
paulherrin
Well-known member
If by any means you are able... I would sell now, while you still can. Unless you like keeping artifacts around... which I can understand. Even Jim likes to keep his old toys.
I mean, if you think your HD camcorder is going to hold value... even the R1's resale value is going to really drop when this new line hits. Except, with the RED One, at least you can still use it for something. Don't get caught holding a brick.
consider yourselves warned.
I mean, if you think your HD camcorder is going to hold value... even the R1's resale value is going to really drop when this new line hits. Except, with the RED One, at least you can still use it for something. Don't get caught holding a brick.
consider yourselves warned.
I've seen where the wind is blowing quite clearly. I work directly with 4K footage almost every day using R3D files directly in Baselight. The company I work for is doing 4K archives for some of Warner Bros. television shows shot on Red. I'm not building any facilities or signing any leases because that's not what I do. However, I also deal with current reality. Just because I do that doesn't mean I don't understand where things might be headed, and it doesn't mean I don't already actively participate in that journey. It does mean that I maintain a sense of proportions about it.
Michael Brennan
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bricklayers take note
bricklayers take note
The business life cycle of electronic cameras for TV (including TV drama production) has been predictable. Payback a camera within 3 years, make profit for the next two then reinvest in new technology if clients demand it, possibly lower rates if they don't.
In the meantime talk that any every(?) 1080p camera will be a brick (within a few years ?) Assumes Epic can do everything for everybody at a matched rental price to other camera systems.
It can't, no camera can.
Believe me it is very hard indeed to persuade producers to spend a single $$ more than they need to.
Whilst we are in warning mode, can I warn you about UltraHD 7.5k?
Can I warn you about compact 2k cameras with large format sensors where the total kit price is a fraction of RED or Epic?
Epic looks like it will be a wonderful camera, that may even "wipe the floor" with the others, but it ain't the end of the story and like digibeta, HDCAM and REDone it will be superseded.
It takes many years indeed for a camera to become obsolescent, fewer years for recording formats.
Bricklayers take note
Mike Brennan
bricklayers take note
The business life cycle of electronic cameras for TV (including TV drama production) has been predictable. Payback a camera within 3 years, make profit for the next two then reinvest in new technology if clients demand it, possibly lower rates if they don't.
In the meantime talk that any every(?) 1080p camera will be a brick (within a few years ?) Assumes Epic can do everything for everybody at a matched rental price to other camera systems.
It can't, no camera can.
Believe me it is very hard indeed to persuade producers to spend a single $$ more than they need to.
Whilst we are in warning mode, can I warn you about UltraHD 7.5k?
Can I warn you about compact 2k cameras with large format sensors where the total kit price is a fraction of RED or Epic?
Epic looks like it will be a wonderful camera, that may even "wipe the floor" with the others, but it ain't the end of the story and like digibeta, HDCAM and REDone it will be superseded.
It takes many years indeed for a camera to become obsolescent, fewer years for recording formats.
Bricklayers take note
Mike Brennan
That's a tough one Mike... even into the late 90's the vast majority of film, television, commercials and music videos were shot on 35. Even today, I don't think there many people who would agree that if given the choice they wouldn't prefer the qualities of 35mm film over a 1080p acquisition source. The simple fact is that every digital camera manufacturer has been trying for many many years to produce digital images that can match those qualities and it seems that only now are we starting to see those efforts actually succeeding.