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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

A question of tripods...

Emmanuel Cambier said:
Hi Stephen
Well the HD Cine 75 payload is 9-165 lb
so of course with RedOne body at 6 lb you'd need something more on top of it. I heard the viewfinder will be quite heavy,plus lens, battery, rails, Mattebox, LCD for the assistant, RedDrive… we should go slightly past the 9 lb.Would it be enough (with a prime or a normal zoom).
Since you've just used it could you comment on it's smoothness and usability?
Click to expand...

Hi Emmanuel,

I find fluid heads work best when the weight is nearer the midle of the spec. If your rig comes in much under 50 lbs (I am sure it will) I think you will start adding sandbags to get the right feel!

I think buying a new head is something you should wait until you have your RED camera, spend time it's an important decision.

I was using the 75 with a Viper & heavy zoom, matte box, follow focus etc., The weight adjustment was still set at 1!

Stephen
 
I use an O’Connor 50D and it’s a great head. I’m hoping to be able to keep it for RED. Hopefully it won’t be overkill. O’Connor makes great heads.
 
Zk2007 said:
I use an O’Connor 50D and it’s a great head. I’m hoping to be able to keep it for RED. Hopefully it won’t be overkill. O’Connor makes great heads.
Click to expand...

Hi,

As the O'Conner head is totally adjustable (as are Cartoni heads), I don't think you will have any problems.

Stephen
 
Can anyone tell me why these things are so expensive? other than that they are made for the FILM (or the F.M.U.T.A) industry??

What justifies the prices being charged? This is not new tech, surely the R&D costs from the established guys is already paid for, there ought to be some price competition... oh wait someone noted they are all owned by the same company. I see now.

Come on 2 grand for a well engineered device of this type, is plenty.
Sure there are people willing to purchase a Jaguar for the name, but a Toyota is more reliable.
 
Appleton said:
The O'Connor HD is pretty pricey at $7K. Add another $2K for legs.

The Cartoni Focus is probably too light for a full set up. If RED comes in at 6 pounds + zoom lens 8 pounds (guessing) + mattebox + filters + EVF + LCD + FF + attatchments...


Is there a tripod system (or just head) in between the Oconnor and the Focus ?
Click to expand...

As recommended by Evinski, I like the Vinten Vision series, good heads at a fair price. They have different models for different camera size/weight and then each model can have different set of springs depending on the precise weight of your cam. I currently use a Vision 3 for PD150s and a HVX. I plan on purchasing a 6 or 8 (I have to check on the weight) for my future Red One. The legs are very good also, but you can find cheaper legs. I'll stick with my Manfrotto (Bogen) legs for the time being.

Cheers,
Damien
 
Emmanuel Cambier said:
Hi Stephen
Well the HD Cine 75 payload is 9-165 lb
so of course with RedOne body at 6 lb you'd need something more on top of it. I heard the viewfinder will be quite heavy,plus lens, battery, rails, Mattebox, LCD for the assistant, RedDrive… we should go slightly past the 9 lb.Would it be enough (with a prime or a normal zoom).
Since you've just used it could you comment on it's smoothness and usability?
Click to expand...

You think a completely decked out Red One will weigh in at only 9 pounds? That seems very light to me. A zoom lens can be quite heavy for sure and would bring the weight to considerably more than 9 pounds. Can anybody make a good estimate of camera weight given we know the weight of the body. It would be very useful so as to know which tripod head would be best suited.

Cheers,
Damien
 
Bro Anansi said:
Can anyone tell me why these things are so expensive? other than that they are made for the FILM (or the F.M.U.T.A) industry??

What justifies the prices being charged? This is not new tech, surely the R&D costs from the established guys is already paid for, there ought to be some price competition... oh wait someone noted they are all owned by the same company. I see now.

Come on 2 grand for a well engineered device of this type, is plenty.
Sure there are people willing to purchase a Jaguar for the name, but a Toyota is more reliable.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Remember they don't sell very many a year & distributers need to earn money.

FWIW the smaller Cartoni heads start well under $2000.

Stephen
 
earthling said:
You think a completely decked out Red One will weigh in at only 9 pounds? That seems very light to me. A zoom lens can be quite heavy for sure and would bring the weight to considerably more than 9 pounds. Can anybody make a good estimate of camera weight given we know the weight of the body. It would be very useful so as to know which tripod head would be best suited.

Cheers,
Damien
Click to expand...

Hi Damien,

I would guess depending on accessories, 12-30 lb, would be a good starting point.

Stephen
 
The Cartoni Focus will handle/counterbalance to 22lbs. You should have no problem with a Red in most configurations...yes, a larger head would be recommended for longer lens work, but to be honest the weak point of a Focus system is the bundled legs that have a single tube lower section. Torsionally these legs aren't that rigid when approaching 20lbs.
My 2cents.

Brian Broz
 
Earthling, thanks for the link to the Vinten. However, even the 8 doesn't cover quite the range I'm looking for (assuming that you want to have your regular kitted RED in the mid range of the specs).

If the zoom comes in at 8 pounds, then for me, the cam will be 25-30 pounds approx. Also, put a Cooke S4 zoom on and you're looking at 12 pounds plus.

Bro, funny ain't it ?

Brian Broz said:
The Cartoni Focus will handle/counterbalance to 22lbs. You should have no problem with a Red in most configurations...
Click to expand...
Maybe still lenses with minimal attatchments, but for anyone buying used Cinezooms/primes or modern zooms, then we could need to reconsider.

I guess I'll wait and see if NAB has any deals.
 
Bro Anansi said:
Can anyone tell me why these things are so expensive? other than that they are made for the FILM (or the F.M.U.T.A) industry??

What justifies the prices being charged? This is not new tech, surely the R&D costs from the established guys is already paid for, there ought to be some price competition... oh wait someone noted they are all owned by the same company. I see now.

Come on 2 grand for a well engineered device of this type, is plenty.
Sure there are people willing to purchase a Jaguar for the name, but a Toyota is more reliable.
Click to expand...

Bro, I totally agree. I think you are going to see many companies following RED and making equipment for the industry that doesn't aim to ream the customer. The only reason I can think of that they charge as much as they do is that they can, it's definitely not the complexity of cost of manufacture thats driving up the cost. The mentality of almost every company that makes this type of equipment is the same - charge a fortune because the customer has no other options anyway.

One thing to keep in mind is that the same companies have been doing this stuff for years and they have a huge overhead to deal with... they probably can't afford to sell anything less than $5K. Most of these companies mark up their cost of goods by 5-10X to keep their stock holders happy. To get the prices down there is noting better than a new company with almost zero overhead making the same quality product for 1/5 the cost... its going to happen, but probably not for RED's launch :)
 
Appleton said:
Earthling, thanks for the link to the Vinten. However, even the 8 doesn't cover quite the range I'm looking for (assuming that you want to have your regular kitted RED in the mid range of the specs).
Click to expand...

I love my Vinten 8, and it handle very smoothly DVX+M2+whatever Nikkor+Mattebox. Surely not that good with RED

...My girlfriend, after sending to sleep our child, came here and had a look at what I was writing. Then, went away laughing and repeating:"..I love my Vinten, I love it.."...
 
Used, but not abused

Used, but not abused

The time honored way to save a buck on an item like a tripod is to buy it used. However, I can't see myself buying one via eBay as the "feel" of a tripod head is what counts and there is no way to test that over the internet.

If any of you have bought a tripod used and had a bad experience - what are the "gotchas" I should look out for. Obviously stripped hardware should be easy to spot, but what else. The tripod I have now is decent (its a Manfrotto) and can handle up to 30 lbs. (13.5 kg) but its just not smooth enough for my taste. It also has legs that are held in place by friction only using medium sized knobs so if you bump a knob or get just a little too much payload (teleprompters are the worst) the whole thing can come down. This is not a risk I like taking with my Sony D-30, which, props to Sony, once fell 4 feet onto a hard surface and still worked perfectly, it is certainly not a risk I will take with my RedOne.

The Sachlers, Vintens, O'Conners, Millers and Cartonis I have used over the years have generally done a fine job but like many of you I find the pricing hard to swallow - gotta save some bux for lenses after all. Anybody wanna recommend a good used gear dealer in SoCal...
 
Alvise Tedesco said:
...My girlfriend, after sending to sleep our child, came here and had a look at what I was writing. Then, went away laughing and repeating:"..I love my Vinten, I love it.."...
Click to expand...
Lol...
Alexander Nikishin said:
OConnor 1030HD FLUID HEAD PACKAGE

Head & sticks for $5,000

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...s&Q=&sku=447432&is=REG&addedTroughType=search
Click to expand...
I was giving Bro the "Canadian" price + shipping and handling.(about $7000)

I'm tempted to just buy a steadicam flyer and a cinesaddle. Add a short friend and a tall friend (to perch the camera on) and you're set.
 
Appleton said:
Earthling, thanks for the link to the Vinten. However, even the 8 doesn't cover quite the range I'm looking for (assuming that you want to have your regular kitted RED in the mid range of the specs).

If the zoom comes in at 8 pounds, then for me, the cam will be 25-30 pounds approx. Also, put a Cooke S4 zoom on and you're looking at 12 pounds plus.


Maybe still lenses with minimal attatchments, but for anyone buying used Cinezooms/primes or modern zooms, then we could need to reconsider.

I guess I'll wait and see if NAB has any deals.
Click to expand...

Well Vinten has other models, here's the Vision series :
http://www.vinten.com/family-detail.php?cn=&lang=1&fid=5

There's the 11 and the 100 if you need something capable of handling more weight. Of course it gets more expensive, but still maybe a better deal than equivalent products from O'Conner, Miller ot Sachtler.

I just realised from Vision 8 and up we're looking at 100mm balls which won't work with my current set of legs (75mm), guess I'll have to add on a whole tripod to my list of things to go with my future Red One ;-)

Cheers,
Damien
 
earthling said:
guess I'll have to add on a whole tripod to my list of things to go with my future Red One ;-)

Cheers,
Damien
Click to expand...
I'm with ya.

As an addendum, do the RED folks have any advice for what kind of release plate to buy (for cage, rails ) ?

Maybe I should wait to see what the designs are ?
 
dv.com has a current article comparing tripods. Not great, but somewhat useful:

http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.php?articleId=193700400

Includes this amusing quote at the end:

"If the purchase price of a tripod system exceeds the cost of your camera and offends your sense of natural order, then you might opt for something less expensive."

My 'sense of natural order' is often offended. :)
 
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