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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

7d vs Red

Jean-Charles Wolfarth said:
Well, I would love to meet all these successful people...
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Jean Charles, many people I know started as runners and worked their way up, myself included.

My point to you was to focus on the positives - there will always be someone better connected with more money and less talent than you being given access to the top table, but today it is so cheap to make amazing quality films and there are so many places you can easily showcase your work that there really are no excuses. Get your hands on whatever you can afford and go for it - which I'm sure you are doing anyway:)

As for why producers are asking for Canon rather than Red. I agree with many of the points raised in this thread already in regards to Canon being the latest buzz word and producers equating it's small form factor with a lighter and therefore faster and cheaper production unit. Many producers are scared of the post process - daunted by their own lack of knowledge and acceptance of mediocrity. But it is also true that the Canons can produce outstanding imagery.

I use the Canons for a lot of work, a hell of a lot, but it wouldn't be my choice for shooting national or international TV commercials - wrong tool for the job IMHO - and I'm amazed at some of the producers and agencies who are happy to go that route.

Also, as a director I find it odd to be told what format to shoot on - usually that's my choice. Crazy world...
 
Dan Sturm said:
I think we can agree that all cameras have their flaws. In varying situations they each show their weaknesses. But when it comes to shooting high detail, we were recently able to 'break' the RED One. And unfortunately for us that didn't mean aliasing, it meant the camera was overwhelmed and dropped frames on nearly every take. In this one regard I think I would have taken a bad image vs no image.
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This is the first I have heard of this.
 
Tom Lowe said:
This is the first I have heard of this.
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I remember this happening on a single camera with one of the very early builds.

I forget whose camera it happened with, but shooting at some tree leaves moving in a breeze caused a problem. From what I recall RED very quickly cranked out a new beta build that killed it.
 
Robert Frank said:
I remember this happening on a single camera with one of the very early builds.

I forget whose camera it happened with, but shooting at some tree leaves moving in a breeze caused a problem. From what I recall RED very quickly cranked out a new beta build that killed it.
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I think that was Leo Ticheli (sp?) from memory. And I agree with Tom, this is the first time in a LONG time that I've heard of something remotely similar. So I'd say it's a specific camera issue, not a general issue in this case.

Cheers,

Paul
 
Yeah, that was my very famous, early Red Build breaking tree!

No problems for a long, long, long time.

I also would be suspicious of an individual camera fault.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
J. Bernard Vallon said:
http://www.jbvmedia.com/tests/7d_25mm_zeiss_lens.jpg
http://www.jbvmedia.com/tests/R1_25mm_RPP_lens.jpg
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After reading this post (Scarlet Shipping-Date Predictions Revisited) I was realy thinking about the Canon 7D and the Canon 5DMII. Nice little DSLR's. Nice to make some movies with it.
But now, I have to wait, yes and I can wait. I have to wait for RED Scarlet Fixed. Even if the RED Scarlet Fixed will be ready by the end of... I wait. I don't buy another camera. I wait.
If we just can see some 3K frames from the RED Scarlet Fixed... :thumbsup:
 
Jean-Charles Wolfarth said:
Well, I would love to meet all these successful people... That's a good explanation of the misunderstanding of some Red owners in this thread about the success of 7d against the Red. You share your life between Dubai and London, two very expensive cities, like Paris where I live. It's obviously an other world...

A lot of people on this forum concentrate on the technical aspect of choosing a camera but again the price is the main concern, whether you're a top producer or an independant filmmaker. It's hard for someone who usually charges $500-$1000 per day to understand that for 2 days of rental a lot of clients prefer to buy a DSRL kit. I know it must be a shock to some but the vast majority of workers in Europe have to work 1 month to earn $1000. If they still have a job.

If you really want to rent your Red against a 7d, just lower the price (for me $200-$300 per day is the right price). You'll have to lower it anyway when the Scarlet will be out. As a renter it's all about this choice : rent your Red $10000 for 1 week per year, or more weeks cheaper. I understand that it's easier to work less :lol:

None of the Red owners I know succeeded in funding back their investment just by renting it. Several even sold their Red package and bought a 7d.

For me Red is the state of the art gear, I'm so grateful to have the possibility of using it, but it's too expensive and we are numerous to hope for a S35 sensor camera with RAW recording at $6000. It will happen, but when ?
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Jean Charles, a lot of people here in the USA are in the same boat. The Red is the best of the best, but many are very happy to have an affordable option.
When Scarlett finally arrives, in both fixed and S35, these cameras will be set aside and relegated back to stills use. But if Red doesn't deliver the Scarlett by 2011, all bets are off.
 
The camera works fine. It has worked perfectly on every shoot prior and since that shoot. I'm sorry to be so brief but i don't really have the time to spend explaining on this forum exactly what happened. As i mentioned, we got no definitive answer from the bomb squad regarding hardware failure. If anyone would like the full details surrounding the shoot, feel free to send me an email at dansturm23@gmail.com and i will forward you the detail i provided the bomb squad.
 
Hi Dan,
Could be that you've replaced my build-killer tree with a better (or worse) scene.

Please do keep us posted on how things work out.

I recently shot complex trees moving with the breeze without a hitch.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
He Leo,

I do believe we found the 'perfect storm' of high detail scenes. There's not much more to come from our research. All anecdotal evidence points to an overwhelming of the camera data path causing the dropped frames. With no additional input from Red as to the source of the issue, the only thing that would verify our issue is complete reshoot under the same circumstances. Since I don't have 10K to spend on a camera test right now, we may have to leave this one as is.
 
Thank you, Dan; is it possible for you to post a still of the offending scene? Might help us avoid the same problem.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
Interesting test. I own and use both cameras. Though some wonder what the point is in comparing the two. The reality is clients bitten by the "new in thing" bug are flocking to the 5D and 7D. We bought one, so not to lose the work. In certain productions the portability of an HDSLR cannot be equalled. Try holding a RED out a 40 story window or out a moving car without rigging. I've done both with my 7D in seconds. But often, clients that can easily afford RED are going to HDSLR's because it's fashionable. It's the new Breezy light (at a fraction the rental). I just shot some promos for one of the big three networks and they opted for the 7D over RED. Not just because it's fashionable but the producer got burned on the RED work flow (from the early days).

From the moment I began using the 7D, I always felt the colors were "skinny" compared to RED or even my HVX 200 for that matter.

As for the test, if you should ever do it again, after matching ISO, perhaps you should match waveforms as best you can as the chips on both cameras clearly have a different sensitivity at a given ISO. At least by matching waveforms, your exposure will be consistent. It's hard to judge the color of the 7D when its exposure, to me, looks "hot", hence somewhat desaturated.

That's all.
 
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