6K Dragon-X DSMC2 Petition!

[Kristin Stewart]

I have a few questions :

1. When shooting 5k with the new upcoming 6K Dragon-X, will the picture be the same (color wise and sensor size) as the Scarlet-W at 5K ?

Because we're in the middle of a long projet started with the Scarlet-W and if we update the brain we'd like to keep consistency for the picture

2. Is it possible to add the extra 2 year warranty Armor when upgrading to the new Dragon-X brain ?

3. I don't understand the schedule thing : is the upgrading process starting on the 17th of December or closing for the registering date ?

4. Would it be possible to have the full specs /price of Komodo before having to choose to upgrade or not to Dragon-X ?

Because it would be nice to avoid realizing that it would have been better to sell the Scarlet-W and to buy the Komodo instead of upgrading once it's done...

Thanks,

Kristin

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

I have a few questions :

1. When shooting 5k with the new upcoming 6K Dragon-X, will the picture be the same (color wise and sensor size) as the Scarlet-W at 5K ?

Because we're in the middle of a long projet started with the Scarlet-W and if we update the brain we'd like to keep consistency for the picture

2. Is it possible to add the extra 2 year warranty Armor when upgrading to the new Dragon-X brain ?

3. I don't understand the schedule thing : is the upgrading process starting on the 17th of December or closing for the registering date ?

4. Would it be possible to have the full specs /price of Komodo before having to choose to upgrade or not to Dragon-X ?

Because it would be nice to avoid realizing that it would have been better to sell the Scarlet-W and to buy the Komodo instead of upgrading once it's done...

Thanks,

Kristin

I can actually answer that first one. I was invited to do the upgrade by a Red rep yesterday, and I asked him what that sensor size and max frame rate is. He replied:

“ As far as size it will be 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm (Diagonal: 28.9 mm) and will be able to do 75 fps at 6K.”

That’s the same size as the current 5k Dragon X (and SW), so if this is correct we’re just getting a resolution bump with no change to sensor size.

 

[Aaron Almquist]

I can actually answer that first one. I was invited to do the upgrade by a Red rep yesterday, and I asked him what that sensor size and max frame rate is. He replied:

“ As far as size it will be 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm (Diagonal: 28.9 mm) and will be able to do 75 fps at 6K.”

That’s the same size as the current 5k Dragon X (and SW), so if this is correct we’re just getting a resolution bump with no change to sensor size.

Crossing my fingers the rep is wrong about no change to sensor size crop factor. That's the only real reason I personally was interested in this upgrade.

 

[Samir Patel]

I can actually answer that first one. I was invited to do the upgrade by a Red rep yesterday, and I asked him what that sensor size and max frame rate is. He replied:

“ As far as size it will be 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm (Diagonal: 28.9 mm) and will be able to do 75 fps at 6K.”

That’s the same size as the current 5k Dragon X (and SW), so if this is correct we’re just getting a resolution bump with no change to sensor size.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Zero previous RED cameras work this way. Dragon sensor is a Dragon sensor. The question is the outer edges masked out and now brought back into play.

 

[Samir Patel]

Remember the OG Scarlet Dragon DSMC-1 also was a 6K sensor at 12fps. Just the internals couldn't drive 24fps at 6K. Essentially making it 5K for films.

 

[Carter McCormick]

Carter McCormick Scarlet W to Dragon 6k +1

 

[Scott Balkum]

I can actually answer that first one. I was invited to do the upgrade by a Red rep yesterday, and I asked him what that sensor size and max frame rate is. He replied:

“ As far as size it will be 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm (Diagonal: 28.9 mm) and will be able to do 75 fps at 6K.”

That’s the same size as the current 5k Dragon X (and SW), so if this is correct we’re just getting a resolution bump with no change to sensor size.

This is not accurate. The 6K sensor size is 30.72x15.80mm and will shoot at 82 fps at that resolution. So, you will be getting a wider FOV than the close to S35 5K currently.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

I can actually answer that first one. I was invited to do the upgrade by a Red rep yesterday, and I asked him what that sensor size and max frame rate is. He replied:

“ As far as size it will be 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm (Diagonal: 28.9 mm) and will be able to do 75 fps at 6K.”

That’s the same size as the current 5k Dragon X (and SW), so if this is correct we’re just getting a resolution bump with no change to sensor size.

Someone on the DSMC2 FB group brought up an interesting question.... since Gemini's sensor is 30.72 mm x 18 mm (Diag: 35.61 mm), would we see a software update for that camera as well to get it into 6K?

 

[BrendanLeahy]

This is not accurate. The 6K sensor size is 30.72x15.80mm and will shoot at 82 fps at that resolution. So, you will be getting a wider FOV than the close to S35 5K currently.

That's specifically for the Weapon Mg sensor, I believe. Dragon-X (which will have a firmware update to enable 6K) is 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm

 

[Samir Patel]

That's specifically for the Weapon Mg sensor, I believe. Dragon-X (which will have a firmware update to enable 6K) is 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm

This would presume that for the first time ever RED has done pixel binning on their existing camera. Something which they have always been against.

 

[Scott Balkum]

Someone on the DSMC2 FB group brought up an interesting question.... since Gemini's sensor is 30.72 mm x 18 mm (Diag: 35.61 mm), would we see a software update for that camera as well to get it into 6K?

Gemini is a 5K sensor. There is nothing more to gain from it in resolution.

 

[Scott Balkum]

That's specifically for the Weapon Mg sensor, I believe. Dragon-X (which will have a firmware update to enable 6K) is 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm

There are 3 flavors of Dragon sensors ever made. 4.5K, 6K, and 8K. All of these we are talking about are the 6K sensors. Red does not pixel bin. This will be the full 6K sensor 30.72x15.80mm. The sensor size stated for Dragon-X 5K is not the physical sensor size but the usable sensor size. They will be simply making it use all of the sensor with the firmware upgrade on Dragon-X and with board replacements on the Scarlet-W

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

That's specifically for the Weapon Mg sensor, I believe. Dragon-X (which will have a firmware update to enable 6K) is 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm

I see both sides here. I’ve asked for clarification/verification of the size. It does make sense to me that if they’re opening up the Dragon sensor to full res that the area of the sensor being used would also increase. But not being an engineer I’m not sure how this works technically.

It’s after hours now, but hopefully I’ll get an answer back on Monday and will let everyone know what he says.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

That's specifically for the Weapon Mg sensor, I believe. Dragon-X (which will have a firmware update to enable 6K) is 25.6 mm x 13.5 mm

If it’s a Dragon sensor the pixel size would be the same. So 6k is 30,72 mm.

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

Actually applies to SW owners more than anyone... not sure this will still exist in march.. When it's done it is done.. That's how these group things work.

So get on the list, doesn't guarantee you will have a place if you get called and you need to bump it... but it gives you a much better chance of getting in if it takes us longer than expected.

I think I asked my question incorrectly. I spoke with a rep and he let me know that when you sign up you can choose your window for the swap. I just did and chose the end of February, so I’m good and looking forward to the new camera.

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

Ok well that was fast. The rep already responded and gave me the official specs. He was initially mistaken, and good news:

“ I just got confirmation the it will actually increase to assimilate the same specs as WEAPON Dragon 6K:

EFFECTIVE PIXELS: 6144 x 3160
SENSOR SIZE: 30.7 mm x 15.8 mm (Diagonal: 34.5 mm)
DYNAMIC RANGE: 16.5+ stops

75 fps at 6K Full Frame (6144 x 3160), 100 fps at 6K 2.4:1 (6144 x 2592)
96 fps at 5K Full Frame (5120 x 2700), 120 fps at 5K 2.4:1 (5120 x 2160)
120 fps at 4K Full Frame (4096 x 2160), 150 fps at 4K 2.4:1 (4096 x 1728)
150 fps at 3K Full Frame (3072 x 1620), 200 fps at 3K 2.4:1 (3072 x 1296)
240 fps at 2K Full Frame (2048 x 1080), 300 fps at 2K 2.4:1 (2048 x 864)”

So you guys that said you will get the wider fov are correct. I’m also happy about this because it is officially larger than Komodo.

Edit: was also told this is not set in stone and could change before release.

 

[BrendanLeahy]

If it’s a Dragon sensor the pixel size would be the same. So 6k is 30,72 mm.

Ah ok - I was going off just the reported sensor size on Red's site! Makes sense between what you and Scott mentioned, although the Gemini sensor size thing is still confusing to me - sensor size has nothing to do with Ks? My knowledge here is a bit :/

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

Ah ok - I was going off just the reported sensor size on Red's site! Makes sense between what you and Scott mentioned, although the Gemini sensor size thing is still confusing to me - sensor size has nothing to do with Ks? My knowledge here is a bit :/

No worries man. Sensor size and resolution are definitely independent, which is why you can have an iPhone with a tiny sensor shooting 4K, and a 5D mk II with a huge sensor that only manages (barely) HD.

 

[David Peacock]

+1 Scarlet-W

 

[Scott Balkum]

I see both sides here. I’ve asked for clarification/verification of the size. It does make sense to me that if they’re opening up the Dragon sensor to full res that the area of the sensor being used would also increase. But not being an engineer I’m not sure how this works technically.

It’s after hours now, but hopefully I’ll get an answer back on Monday and will let everyone know what he says.

This is already known. Please see above.