Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

65mm from RED

Aleksandr Frayman said:
By the way, I'm thinking about buying an 8K monitor, and since the choice is not big, I look at a monitor from DELL or QLED 85-inch TV from Samsung 8k. Accordingly, I will work with 8K material from Monstro and will do Color Grading. What do you think is more appropriate? and is it worth it?
Click to expand...

QLED 8K TV 65 inch QE65Q900R 2018 with 4 HDMI2.0 ports and HDR 3000 for € 4.999 in Europe.

You might also need something like a DeckLink 8K Pro ($645) and 4x Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 12G($495 each) adapters to use it as a color grading monitor in Resolve.
 
How about an un-official pool?

How about an un-official pool?

M Most said:
You do realize that essentially all tentpole releases today are finished at 2K, don't you? Unless someone can magically extend the post schedules for these kind of pictures - and for the most part, those schedules are always getting shorter, not longer - there are significant technical and artistic barriers to getting 2500 VFX shots done at the quality level that's expected at anything higher than that in the near future. That's the reality for large scale productions, not what people here seem to think it is...
Click to expand...

Yes, I am aware. Tentpole DCPs are looking for universality first, so they tend to go bog standard 24fps 1080 x 2048 as the wide release format. To support 8K decently would require new hardware right to the internal wiring in many multi-screen theaters that access a shared storage pool, etc. Great for some parts of the food chain, but, will it require another financing gambit like virtual print fees to promote uptake by exhibitors? For the foreseeable future, high rez technology that adds expense with no proven uptick in revenue, is a non-starter - we certainly agree on that.

It would take the exhibitors actively looking for a way to offer something you can't get at home - AND - committing to a strategy based around the easy marketing angle - 8 is more than 4. Will they decide to try other tactics instead of trumpeting resolution? Wouldn't surprise me. It's only one tool in the box, they might prefer to glam up the venues instead, who knows.

If you ask me, the elephant in the room is whether enough people will continue to "go out" to the movies, vs consuming media at home, as habits shift. What about the demographic that will pay a premium price, while buying higher markup food & drink. Is that the key to survival in expensive malls/locales? Better revenue per square foot, etc. For that crowd, is the quality of the recliner more important than the quality of the projected image? I'd expect customer surveys to say so.

Current DCPs support automated theater operations and limit risk. They could easily remain the standard for many more years as exhibitors try to keep expenses down to survive. I still think the Olympics in 8K will move the needle, hard to say how much of course. Best case, NRE for some new silicon with fast pipes to do 8K at low TDP will be largely eaten by NHK and its partners, enabling an 8K ecosystem at 2K cost levels. Worst case: over compressed 8K from the Olympics sh*ts the bed - add 5 more years to estimate ;-/

Don't want to violate any forum rules, but it would be fun to collect guesses on what year we see 8K theatrical exhibition available at at least 1 venue in 4 of the 5 largest markets in the US. I've been assuming the Olympics feeds will be downrezzed to UHD/4K anywhere outside Japan, however, even if they are available in 8K, Tokyo 2020 doesn't count. To get things started, I'll guess 2024. Side bet - Mike will pick a year much farther in the future ;-) (and probably be correct, he usually is)

Cheers - #19
 
Misha Engel said:
QLED 8K TV 65 inch QE65Q900R 2018 with 4 HDMI2.0 ports and HDR 3000 for € 4.999 in Europe.

You might also need something like a DeckLink 8K Pro ($645) and 4x Teranex Mini SDI to HDMI 12G($495 each) adapters to use it as a color grading monitor in Resolve.
Click to expand...

Does this 8K TV fit all modern requirements for post production or is it still not good enough?
 
The Dell is being used by a few studios focused on 8K as it's a better "monitor sized" display.

Works via two DP 1.4 ports nicely up to 60hz. Decent color.

The televisions in general all operate as of now via 4X HDMI in. Most are on the 2.0 standard.

This time next year, TVs will be down to one HDMI cable and we'll have a few more 8K display options in various sizes.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Yes, I am aware. Tentpole DCPs are looking for universality first, so they tend to go bog standard 24fps 1080 x 2048 as the wide release format.
Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to the DCP. I was referring to finishing, in other words, final mastering, as well as the format that essentially all of the VFX are delivered in. Many of those pictures can go out as either 2K or 4K DCPs. That doesn't mean that the show was finished that way.
 
M Most said:
I wasn't referring to the DCP. I was referring to finishing, in other words, final mastering, as well as the format that essentially all of the VFX are delivered in. Many of those pictures can go out as either 2K or 4K DCPs. That doesn't mean that the show was finished that way.
Click to expand...

I agree that VFX/finishing/mastering at anything greater than 2K isn't worth a nickel of extra cost unless exhibitors (or streaming services???) make a conscious choice to embrace resolution as a marketing angle. In my post I wanted to promote a major upgrade in DCI data rates sooner than later, didn't intend to make it seem like that's the only reason 4K isn't more widely adopted.

AFAIK, no arm of the entertainment industry has ever increased costs of any kind, unless competitive pressures pushed them to. My entire theory is based on theatrical exhibitors trying to stay a step ahead of other media consumption modalities by touting resolution. We should revisit this topic in 5-6 years and see how it went.

Thanx Mike, as always, for sharing your well earned knowledge.

Cheers - #19
 
We are having two of them and everyone loves it. It's so pleasing to the eyes. Just don't watch 1080 videos on it XD
 
Aleksandr Frayman said:
montage video 8k, color grading, Maya, nuke.
Click to expand...

At the moment I would still go for a LG C8 55" 4k TV + Calman calibrator for that. All current 8k panels are not nearly as color accurate as LG OLED panels.
8k is just to new at the moment, same counts for the additional hardware you need to make it all work.

A friend of mine has the Dell and uses it for photograpy and while it's good for pixel peeping and focus checking it's not that good for color grading (uniformity problems).
 
Misha Engel said:
At the moment I would still go for a LG C8 55" 4k TV + Calman calibrator for that. All current 8k panels are not nearly as color accurate as LG OLED panels.
8k is just to new at the moment, same counts for the additional hardware you need to make it all work.

A friend of mine has the Dell and uses it for photograpy and while it's good for pixel peeping and focus checking it's not that good for color grading (uniformity problems).
Click to expand...

what about Sharp Aquos 8k?
 
Aleksandr Frayman said:
what about Sharp Aquos 8k?
Click to expand...

Same, also with 4 HDMI 2.0 ports.

Unless you're Phil Holland with 3 Monstro's stitched together or when you own a $500.000 Sony UHC-8300 3 sensor camera, SUHD TV's don't make much sense.
When you own a Hasselblad H6D-100c for stills it could make sense.

All other camera's just don't have enough pixel to give a perfect SUHD RGB-output.

When you run SUHD annimations on it, a beefy GPU with 10 bits color in OpenCL is enough (WX9100($1.350) with 4 DP to HDMI2.0 cable's(~$10 each)).

When you really want an SUHD TV, Samsung is your best and cheapest option at the moment.
The 65" is rated at 3000 nits peak and the 75" and 85" are rated for 4000 nits peak.
 
Misha Engel said:
Same, also with 4 HDMI 2.0 ports.

Unless you're Phil Holland with 3 Monstro's stitched together or when you own a $500.000 Sony UHC-8300 3 sensor camera, SUHD TV's don't make much sense.
When you own a Hasselblad H6D-100c for stills it could make sense.

All other camera's just don't have enough pixel to give a perfect SUHD RGB-output.

When you run SUHD annimations on it, a beefy GPU with 10 bits color in OpenCL is enough (WX9100($1.350) with 4 DP to HDMI2.0 cable's(~$10 each)).

When you really want an SUHD TV, Samsung is your best and cheapest option at the moment.
The 65" is rated at 3000 nits peak and the 75" and 85" are rated for 4000 nits peak.
Click to expand...

I have a monstro. I'm not looking for a cheap option, I'm looking for the best option on the market.
 
Phil Holland said:
Without breaking any NDAs what I can say is every needle points to a:
- 4K @ 120fps max
- 8K @ 60fps max
- 12-16bit (10-12 today)

Future.

I'll leave sound out of the mix, pun intended, for now :)

I think for cinema they really need to look at data rate in the face of what is coming over 5G and Gigabit. Color and resolution are where cinema will still be able to really differentiate itself from home streaming offerings.

As for the ATSC 3.0 standards, I'm behind the effort, but I fear they are lagging a bit far behind the line and likely can't fully compete with the streaming marketplace within two years. Though in our country it will be a moderate requirement and likely subsidized eventually. At that point a bigger issue will be at hand though.

12bit display technology is happening in the R&D world aggressively at the moment. Getting a good 10bit display for a decent price truly happens next year and you will see offering from some unexpected corners.

I'd chop off a toe for a decent DCI 8K monitor in the 30-40" range. Not my toe mind you, but somebody elses to pay for that thing. 8K goes single cable HDMI next year proper from what the crystal ball says. That's the biggy for consumers really. Then what drives them. The 8K stream box today is around $2500 USD. That will come down in price rapidly.
Click to expand...

Looking at the current trend in software development from EPIC Unreal Studio/Adobe/BlackMagic coupled with AMDs high core count cpu's as well as the competition that is heating up within the GPU realm, 8K will become standard in 2019 with full consumer adoption by 2020 due to the affordable price point.

Samsung and LG already stated that creating 8K televisions were easier than 4k tvs.

Looking back at the Vision RED had when showing the silver RED One prototype to the conceptualization of the DSMC1's, Larger than FF35 was already on the table.

An 8K Medium format Sensor the size of the Fuji Film GFX 50 would yield INCREDIBLE LOW LIGHT performance. Amazing DR etc

A FF35 Gemini at 6k would be a monster as well.

Do not forget about The NEW TECHNOLOGY RED and Intel are working on where the new sensor(Prototype) can capture Z-Depth. You will be able to step into your movie.

Being able to capture more dynamic range without switching to High and Low ISO is another big step.

We live in exciting times. I love RED for creating our unified dreams.
 
Last edited:
It's adorable that people consider the GFX 50 a medium format sized sensor :), though it is larger format for sure.

Sort of wish people got into using the plus symbol. VV for instance is named relatively accurately in relationship to a known format or could be considered FF35+. Similar to what the Fuji should be coined.

*Runs away and hides
 
Phil Holland said:
It's adorable that people consider the GFX 50 a medium format sized sensor :), though it is larger format for sure.

Sort of wish people got into using the plus symbol. VV for instance is named relatively accurately in relationship to a known format or could be considered FF35+. Similar to what the Fuji should be coined.

*Runs away and hides
Click to expand...

HEHEHE Yeah its not a true Medium Format but it still would be a good size for 8k
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top