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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

5K Epic

If I am seing the picture clearly (which I very well may not...) the higher datarate/lower compression alone will justify the added pricepoint (which I wouldn't be able to afford without the RED :) )

40k is a steal.

Settled.
 
donatello said:
3 camera's .. 3 price points ... take your pick !!
for many the 22K difference will be worth every $ beween epic & red one ...
IMO if one thinks any of the 3 camera's are "over priced" please take a look at other manufacturer's prices ...
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That's not the point. The point was making obsolescence obsolete into the hands of many, the Red One. Now not anymore.
 
Jim Stewart said:
That's not the point. The point was making obsolescence obsolete into the hands of many, the Red One. Now not anymore.
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That was exactly the point. RED One will be the mainstay in the line, the best bang for the buck. 4K in a package that can shoot handheld or on sticks. EFP or feature. And for $17.5K. Always. It's not going anywhere. And if the opportunity to get all your money back after a year (shoot for free) towards an Epic strikes you as not supporting our customer, then your other option is to upgrade your RED One with Mysterium-X sensor technology. Where in this industry, or any other, is making obsolescence obsolete more clearly defined? Is Sony giving back full credit on F23s against F35s?

You have no idea how frustrating it is to be changing an industry and how a company treats customers and hear remarks like yours.
 
Let RED run and see what they can do on the "high end" ($40K is still a laugh on the high end...).

I'm sure that as soon as Build 16 is released, RED ONE will be all the camera anyone ever needs...it's already more camera than most of us need.

Any further innovations will have to be in delivery systems (RED RAY), because EPIC pretty much maxes out the need for more camera. As does RED ONE...

What seems to be lost in the debate is that none of the line-up of RED cameras are going to be that far apart in terms of images that they can produce. The existing delivery systems don't support the images that *any* of them produce, at least not on a very or affordable large scale--so really, there is no need to get our panties in a twist over who has the better camera...every single camera in the line-up is years ahead of what can be delivered, anyway.

How can EPIC make RED ONE obsolete when so few people can deliver what RED ONE can produce?

What should be obsolete is the discussion of who has the better camera...they all blow the existing standards out of the water.
 
Big Jon said:
That was exactly the point. RED One will be the mainstay in the line, the best bang for the buck. 4K in a package that can shoot handheld or on sticks. EFP or feature. And for $17.5K. Always. It's not going anywhere. And if the opportunity to get all your money back after a year (shoot for free) towards an Epic strikes you as not supporting our customer, then your other option is to upgrade your RED One with Mysterium-X sensor technology. Where in this industry, or any other, is making obsolescence obsolete more clearly defined? Is Sony giving back full credit on F23s against F35s?

You have no idea how frustrating it is to be changing an industry and how a company treats customers and hear remarks like yours.
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I thoroughly agree with your points Jon...

The full price trade-in offer by RED for RED ONE into EPIC is fantastic. In a 30 year career in the motion media industry I don't remember such a dollar-for-dollar trade in program.

RED ONE will continue to be what it is: a potent and versatile 4k/3k/2k production tool, fully supported and upgradable camera system.

As one of the very earliest supporters/adopters of RED I am totally onboard with the concept of having our company kits include EPIC, RED ONE, and Scarlet. Our production group will order at least eight EPIC cameras, retain around four RED ONE cameras upgraded to Mysterium X (we own seven RED ONE cameras right now), and order at least ten Scarlet cameras.

We've had nothing but the best customer service from RED, and we've had RED ONE cameras since the very first ones shipped on 8/31/07. I know Jim Jannard and all members of RED Team very well. They are in reality poster children for under-promising and over-delivering. The tools they have delivered in the short length of time they have been in existence is nothing short of stunning.

Thanks for all the hard work RED Team! It is deeply appreciated by the vast majority of us who have been using your products.
 
The mutual respect... even when we disagree, it's one of the most aspects that I appreciate in this forum. Epic has been difficult to swallow, though.
 
What I cannot really understand is how EPIC in any conceivable way makes RED obsolete...

ONE is the same today as yesterday, and it will be upgraded.
There are good arguments that there are better cameras than RED ONE out there already - not at the same price, but still... (I haven'tseen/used one, but there are arguments for Dalsa, ARRI D21/D20, SI, F23/and most likely the F35) Do they make the ONE "obsolete"? Then how?

EPIC will most likely have its advantages over ONE. So will actually a Scarlet or a HV20 in given circumstances... So what?

EPIC is only good and in too many ways to list, even for the ONE owners who will not be upgrading. The most important sign with EPIC/Scarlet is that RED is planning to stay in and shake up this business for years to come.
 
The Red obsolescence obsolete philosophy is not around the $17,500 anymore, but $40,000.
 
yeah... no... sorta...


I post all my RED stuff @ 2k or 1080 (cept for keying) because there's simply nothing to view 4k in my neighbourhood. To call ONE obsolete, when I don't even have a good reason to use its full potential feels kinda... stupid, maybe?

ONE does not become obsolete because anything else is better. Heck, I could probably still make a good living from the PD-150. Is it obsolete when it makes my bread and butter?
Not to me it isn't...

With the added production value for ONE over 150 (just for arguments sake...) Is it obsolete because there's a 5k cam coming in a year or so?

Guess what? I'm pretty sure RED wil announce another Cam with even better specs than EPIC down the road. Maybe already @ next NAB, but for sure within the next 3 years. And I'd be surprised (like I was now...) if there's another trade in offer.

Untill we have 24 bit (or @ least 16 bit) uncompressed (or similar) cams that you can pick up and carry and record, there will be major technical developments to digital cameras. Count on it. The holy grail would be something like a 24 bit 8k RAW (but not too compressed) cam.
The next step will drop as many jaws as the last did.

then things will eventually flatten out, like they did with audio. Beyond 24bit/96 khz nothing has really happened to the formats, but the signal chain is improved. (yeah, I know you can record 32 bit float, but for arguments sake...) Today even cheapo soundcards comes with the same "technical" specs as the high end stuff. Guess what, they don't all sound the same...

But for now, in video, there is the breaking of these barriers which is some of the fun.

I have an old beast standing here in the studio, a Yamaha 03D I bought the moment it came out. Is it obsolete?
I can still make nice recordings and mixes with it, even though it's "only" 20 bits internal processing... It still makes me money, 10 years on.

Just a thought...
 
Mr. Orange said:
The Red obsolescence obsolete philosophy is not around the $17,500 anymore, but $40,000.
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I disagree.

Read again what Steve Gibby and Big Jon said.

Red One is still $17.5k and it is not obsolete in any way. It will be fully supported, developed and upgraded for long time.

What is even better, now there is another camera, targeting different market, which gives you a choice, but does not render Red One obsolete.

Likewise, Epic or Red One do not render Scarlet obsolete.

All three are complementary products and each is better focused on the intended market and purpose, which are impossible to serve well with a single camera.
 
I am astonished by those who quibble with Red's munificence which has been beyond the call. But there are, alas, always some who refuse to recognize gallantry, generosity, elegance and insist on slapping at gnats instead of reveling in the miracle of the landscape. May they one day enjoy beyond their picking of nits.
 
Gibby said:
Our production group will order at least eight EPIC cameras, retain around four RED ONE cameras upgraded to Mysterium X (we own seven RED ONE cameras right now), and order at least ten Scarlet cameras.
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I am amazed with how fast RED is spreading around.
I walked today in to the rental house, in medium sized city, trying to get some extra gears for my RED.

Asked the guy if he have heard about RED and if he has some mounts for it.

Guy didn’t answer anything, let me in to the stockroom where I saw 10 REDs side by side geared in many different configurations. Second time this month I was speechless. (RED related)
“Yes we support RED here and we have 15 more on order!”
 
rodbradley said:
I am astonished by those who quibble with Red's munificence which has been beyond the call. But there are, alas, always some who refuse to recognize gallantry, generosity, elegance and insist on slapping at gnats instead of reveling in the miracle of the landscape. May they one day enjoy beyond their picking of nits.
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Fascinating, isn't it? A revolutionary company led by a man whose sole pleasure is in changing the face of high technology marketing and advance, offering multiple levels of technology beyond the competition's for a fraction of the price, establishing tools for independent film makers (RED One) as well as tools for rental houses and large production (Epic) and even offering the individual the perfect personal motion capture tool (need I even say it?) and there are those that find something to complain about. To change the world, with the benefit going to hundreds of thousands of creative people and ultimately to everyone, by virtue of the content produced, and yet there are those that want to criticize it and pick it apart.

I have had the distinct pleasure and honor of seeing the twinkle in Jim's eyes when he comes up with an amazing idea that benefits the customer, as though it was he that reaps the immediate reward. I wish you could all know how much it means to him to get it right. To get it right for the customer and have the customer be treated like no company has ever treated him before.

It is the most amazing part of this journey for me that much of what RED stands for is altruistic and selfless, spearheaded by a man who is not in it for the money, but for the shear joy of accomplishment in changing the rules. I guess it is true that you can't please all the people all of the time. No matter how hard you try, no matter your motivations. It's a crazy world.
 
gunleik said:
I post all my RED stuff @ 2k or 1080 (cept for keying) because there's simply nothing to view 4k in my neighbourhood. To call ONE obsolete, when I don't even have a good reason to use its full potential feels kinda... stupid, maybe?
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I totally understand what you're saying, however I personally feel that the oversampling power of RED's 4K sensor is exactly what makes those 1080p pictures look so amazing. If I needed to be routinely finishing in 4K for whatever reason, I'd want to be using a 6 or 8K camera for acquisition. Obviously we're not there yet, but it's pretty clear at the rate this technology keeps improving that it's not too far off. Anyway, point is that in the way you are using your camera, I believe you are absolutely using its full potential... at least the way I see it.
 
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