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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Christoffer Glans said:
Would be strange if this has better specs than the Scarlet Dragon and also have the ability to upgrade to a next generation sensor after it... that would honestly be better than even having an Epic Dragon.
When will this be released in full specs? This kind of teasing makes it hard to plan gear before knowing what it is.
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What if it is a Scarlet Dragon that can only shoot 4K in a Weapon style plastic body ? (It does look plastic, could be wrong though).
I honestly don't think this will be better than a Epic Dragon.
 
Ok so we have been blessed with Mini Mag SSD... awesome! Thank you, Jarred.

Now, I feel like I'm at a craps table.
Commmmeeeeee oooonnnnnn...
Redcode 6:1 (I'll take 8:1)
Come on 4K 60p
Come on Dragon
Come on Ready To Shoot under $10k (Mount, monitor, SSD)
 
Damn! On one hand we have a ballot over the leader of our country, and on the other, waiting for Jarred to fess up on this camera. CONFLICTED!
 
Now it's getting interesting. Maybe more info tomorrow?
 
4.7 screen and 120gb Mini Mag.... humm for Weapon and Dragon?
Nope... Wings are missing (lol)
 
- Weapon style body ---- Check ----



Patrick Tresch said:
I bet on a

- 5k camera up to 30p, (60p in 4k?).
- R3D
- Weapon like aluminium body
- Dragon sensor
- Fixed lens mount (choose between Nikon, Canon)
- Integrated wifi
- Prores HD would make a lot of sense (but not likely to happen because of $$$)
- 2kg
- 9500.-- $ bundle with some goodies (1ssd, or some battery module and access, ... )

Pat
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Sorry, but @ $1700 for the cheapest storage option (2x120 mini mags), in no way whatsoever will it be a camera for "all"! Not that I care as a Scarlet user, as it'll be out of reach for the undercutters in my town. Looking forward to hearing what's under the hood.
 
Ryan Lightbourn said:
Sorry, but @ $1700 for the cheapest storage option (2x120 mini mags), in no way whatsoever will it be a camera for "all"! Not that I care as a Scarlet user, as it'll be out of reach for the undercutters in my town. Looking forward to hearing what's under the hood.
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Hey don't take what I'm about to say as a sarcastic comment or anything like that but I've seen a couple other people taking about the new 120G Mini Mags and saying how they will get 2 of them for their setup. It doesn't make sense since the 240G is $300 less than 2X 120G MM. Is it just for the fact of having a spare card? I'm really asking so I can know.
 
Have anyone thought of a ProRes only Red camera? Maybe it's just 4K prores, no Raw mode in a plastic or aluminum body with either the MX sensor or the Dragon, but probably a MX sensor, making the cost go down to almost pennies?
 
Just 4K Pro Res would be a bold move! They could equally just knock down the compression rate on the 4K REDcode side of things to 8:1 or 10:1.

Someone else pointed out the possibility of 5K - I really dont think they will go with 5K unless this is a straight replacement for the Scarlet. If they still keep Scarlet Dragon I think this will be capped at 4K(DCI) and will kick out the Scarlet-X (flash sale?).
Keep the Scarlet Dragon for 5K and 6K stills - lower compression rates etc and slow-motion possibly.
 
Adam Rook said:
Hey don't take what I'm about to say as a sarcastic comment or anything like that but I've seen a couple other people taking about the new 120G Mini Mags and saying how they will get 2 of them for their setup. It doesn't make sense since the 240G is $300 less than 2X 120G MM. Is it just for the fact of having a spare card? I'm really asking so I can know.
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Adam, I can only answer for myself and a few others I've worked with and we preferred to have a smaller card to be safe to not loose too much data if anything happens and swap them out. Backing up card 1 while shooting with card 2. But since these always were working rock solid for me, I was already thinking about switching that kind of setup to a single bigger card for a day of shooting per camera.
 
Whatever it is I think it will have to surpass a lot of the specs thrown around here like MX sensor etc. The current trade in value at Red for a Scarlet DRAGON is $5000.00. Which more or less sets a benchmark for its residual value by Red. Whatever Raven is one can't be left thinking you'd be better off buying a used Scarlet Dragon body obviously so one can speculate from there what improvements this may have. Weapon is all about the engine and form factor and processor power to go to 8K. So that leaves a lot of room for a more than capable newcomer. And I am not sure it has to be inferior to Scarlet.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Have anyone thought of a ProRes only Red camera?
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Yes, see #185.

My guess would be ProRes (if RED wants to sell it RTS at $8000—the limit I've set for myself to qualify as #4K4ALL). ProRes makes it much easier for RED to be aggressive on price—while still maintaining good resolution and modest frame rates—without cannibalising a more professional REDcode raw product.

I thought CFast to further keep the distance to Epic/Weapon, but here we have it: MiniMag SSD. Sweet!

Personally, if it were the MX sensor I wouldn't be interested. But with Dragon and Standard OLPF, I would seriously consider replacing my 1Dc. But I would need a solid FF mode for stills.
 
Jumping around on this topic a bit but I think we need to bear in mind Scarlet DRAGON trade in is $5000.00. So I would imagine, unless they are really going to make a toy akin to a BMW 318 which I seriously doubt, that leaves a lot of room for this to be a serious little contender. The Dragon sensor is increasingly accepted to be a great imager. So if one could make its power more readily available in a form factor that is easy to use and offers a few of the benefits of pro rez and priced right it would grab a lot of buyers thinking about Ursas and C300MK2, because they would be getting superior imaging tech at a competitive price. Weapon is the engine of the future. Raven could be a solid piece of gear for getting things done right now. My only question would be if they could keep up with the demand:)
 
Some wild guesses going on here. So here's my 2c.

1. I don't think Red would destroy what makes them unique, ie. Redcode. So no to ProRes would be my guess.

2. If you're going to make a cheap body, you need to make money somewhere else, ie. accessories. No problem with that. Economies of scale mean that it'll use the same tools and accessories that fit Weapon and/or Epic and Scarlet. So Minimags, monitors, batteries etc stay the same across the board.

3. With Scarlet having less circuit boards/replication of CPUs than Epic or Weapon, it stands to reason that the same principle should hold here. So I'd look at this as the new Scarlet. A single CPU over however many are in Weapon, with the attendant reduction in processing power and resolution/framerates. My guess is that a single CPU is capable of at least 4K at 30fps, but it could well be higher.

4. I would personally be quite ok with an MX based sensor if the price is right, cannibalised from the many cameras returned through upgrade programs, but it's probably a Dragon sensor in there, be it a slice of a bigger sensor or a full one that didn't pass the level of quality needed to be a Weapon.

5. Along with the last point, it'll be at a minimum Super35 in size. Red is first and foremost a cinema camera (plus the DSMC concept). No point in doing less.

6. The mount looks to be fixed and EF compatible. This makes perfect sense as it's basically the most common mount out there, that supports cine direction lenses as well as tonnes of adapters. It's also electronic, in keeping with Red's ability to control EF aperture etc and the new stills autofocus capabilities.

7. The body looks like it's made of plastic. This makes perfect sense and would not worry me at all, since modern plastics are extremely good quality and solid. Just look at the Sigma lenses as a good example. Want better quality? Step up to Weapon, be it metal or CF. As the thermal design of Weapon looks to be highly efficient, I'd not worry about any temperature issues over Mg or CF.

All in all, it excites me that Red may be making a low cost play. The market has exploded in the last year or two with highly capable, 4K budget cameras (I own a GH4 which I love as well). If Red can get a basic package out for under $10,000 that is ready to shoot besides adding lenses (so batteries, media, reader, charger, monitor etc) then I think they could easily see a LOT of sales from those currently looking at Sony, Blackmagic et al, since most of those will require a similar number to be ready to shoot.

Interesting days ahead!

Cheers from Berlin,

Paul :)
 
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