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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Paul Leeming said:
Some wild guesses going on here. So here's my 2c.
1. I don't think Red would destroy what makes them unique, ie. Redcode. So no to ProRes would be my guess.
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If it put demands on the processing boards and those boards are expensive then it might be impossible to go r3d AND keep the cost down. I mean, they made a big thing about ProRes and being able to shoot ProRes only, so why wouldn't it be possible?
R3D is only a part of what makes Red unique, and a 4K camera with a Red sensor in a small Weapon body is not a bad idea if it cost way under what BM and other camera companies charge, especially if you have all the other stuff like timecode and so on. Sony A7s II is all great when it comes to image quality, but even small independent filmmakers need certain specs in order to handle production demands on the camera.

Jacobo Martinez said:
Can it be : 4k4all frame rates? Meaning This is a high frame rate camera?
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I don't think 4KFORALL means that. That would be a niche market so no, definitely not a high speed camera (to rival Phantom).
 
If it doesn't record Redcode it's not a Red, no matter what it says on the side. It is the single thing that Red has that is better than anything anyone else has. People can argue day and night about redition/skintones/low light/highlight rolloff of various other cameras, but Red's implementation of compressed raw is a masterpiece.

Pro Res licences would up the price more than their proprietary recording system.

The fact is has mini-mags is a pretty clear indication that it will shoot Redcode.

I guess in an ideal world for my needs a non-upgradeable EF-Mount Epic-spec (resolutions and framerates) or higher competing with the C300 mk2 on price would be lovely.
 
Adam Rook said:
Hey don't take what I'm about to say as a sarcastic comment or anything like that but I've seen a couple other people taking about the new 120G Mini Mags and saying how they will get 2 of them for their setup. It doesn't make sense since the 240G is $300 less than 2X 120G MM. Is it just for the fact of having a spare card? I'm really asking so I can know.
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Yeah, absolutely...having one means of recording is never a good idea. If you need to dump footage for whatever reason, you're halting production (since you have nothing else to shoot on).

Plus like Patrick said, leaving all of your eggs in one basket isn't the greatest idea.
 
Recording to miniSSD - love it!
Weapon body - love it!
RED RAVEN - absolutely love this name!
Raven, I guess you'll be my first RED camera!
 
Ben Scott said:
I guess in an ideal world for my needs a non-upgradeable EF-Mount Epic-spec (resolutions and framerates) or higher competing with the C300 mk2 on price would be lovely.
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So that's a difference between our expectations right there. How do you feel "competing with C300 mkII" matches with the #4K4ALL? Don't you think the hashtag is significant, or how do you figure the $16000 price point being for all?

The various X-user forums are filled to the brim with people struggling to afford a C100 mkII. There are MANY that will never reach the level of a FS7, let's say. Those are the 4ALL I think of when imagining this camera.

If RED were to make a camera in the sub $8000 segment. Do you still feel it could do 4k+, redcode, and still offer latest body design including Mini-Mag+Touch Monitor and not cannibalise the higher prices REDs?

Well... maybe RAVEN just is a S35 sensor that does 4k exactly with no larger frame options. Then I could see it using RedCode. It would also just be an 8MP stills camera—and that would be a non starter.
 
Adam Rook said:
Hey don't take what I'm about to say as a sarcastic comment or anything like that but I've seen a couple other people taking about the new 120G Mini Mags and saying how they will get 2 of them for their setup. It doesn't make sense since the 240G is $300 less than 2X 120G MM. Is it just for the fact of having a spare card? I'm really asking so I can know.
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To answer that question with a serious answer, what's fairly common on production sets is to have multiple REDMAGs or MINI-MAGs + a DIT or Data Manager. Typically when one mag is full it is sent over to the DIT or Data Manager for offloading and backup. Other common tasks when the offload occurs are rending proxies, quick first light color corrections, applying a production LUT, data logging, etc.. While that is happening you have an extra mag in the ready to continue filming.

In my experience on set it's really common to have 2-8 mags per camera depending on mag size and workflow.

Some DITs get real itchy towards the end of the filming day if you are shooting on a larger mag and sometimes request swap outs at 30-50%. That often depends on the DITs system and what they can handle. If wrap is at 5pm and load out has a hard out at 6pm it's certainly a good idea to think of this stuff ahead of time and not drop 1TB of media for quicktimes and backup.

If you are on a good sized production you have a Digital Loader running mags back to you after they have been offloaded and backed up.
 
I wish they'd just announce the camera when it's ready. All these tease posts just drag out the already long delivery process.
 
Thanks, Phil for the response. That makes a lot of sense. Sometimes I start thinking of things based on my own experiences and what I would do. I'm a one-man-show so I like having as large a card as possible and I just offload everything when I get home or back to the hotel that night.
 
Matt Doane said:
I wish they'd just announce the camera when it's ready. All these tease posts just drag out the already long delivery process.
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Business 101... interrupt as many 4.6K Ursa Mini pre-orders as quickly as possible.
 
Ryan Lightbourn said:
Business 101... interrupt as many 4.6K Ursa Mini pre-orders as quickly as possible.
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Sure, but at what cost to your customers? At this point I don't trust RED unless it's available to order/ship right now. There's just too much confusion with the delivery model.
 
Adam Rook said:
I mean Sony is packing the A7sii with S-Log3
If they can do it, Red can give us Redcode with little to no limitations.
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S-Log3 (LOG) is not RAW.

I think it would be rather ironic if the RAVEN was 4K ProRes only - and everyone would flip out and scream 'WHERE'S MY RAW!!!!" and the folks screaming would be exactly the same folks who kicked and screamed "My clients only want ProRes!!!".

I think it's crazy the expectations that people have for RED vs. other camera companies. Canon C300 MK2 - $16,000 - no on board RAW - nobody complains and they are selling like hotcakes.
 
Matt Doane said:
Sure, but at what cost to your customers? At this point I don't trust RED unless it's available to order/ship right now. There's just too much confusion with the delivery model.
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Uh... maybe 3 years ago. It's pretty straightforward. They tell you whats happening and give constant updates. If you want to be confused go order a Ursa or any BMC camera for that matter. If I order something from RED I can email my bomb squad rep just about any day and get a human response.
 
If it was ProRes only, I don't see how it would really be any different than the URSA mini, except for maybe higher frame rates. Red takes a lot of pride in Redcode, and rightfully so. I doubt they would announce any camera that does not allow Redcode. Its really anyone's guess what this will be. Probably no point speculating.
 
My guess is this could be budget Scarlet Dragon specs in Weapon form. So maybe:

5K 30, 4K 48fps
No Prores

$10k? Shooting kit $15k?
 
Omar N said:
If it was ProRes only, I don't see how it would really be any different than the URSA mini, except for maybe higher frame rates. Red takes a lot of pride in Redcode, and rightfully so. I doubt they would announce any camera that does not allow Redcode. Its really anyone's guess what this will be. Probably no point speculating.
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I would be shocked if it was ProRes only - I wasn't speculating as much as amusing myself. But again, funny how many people keep coming back to the URSA mini with respect to conversations about features about RAVEN - and meanwhile - other camera manufacturers are doing just fine with cameras priced higher with similar features to URSA mini.

If RED prices the RAVEN the same price as the URSA mini - I'll vomit.

People who want the URSA mini - should PLEASE buy it and move on.
 
Mark, my point was that Sony is including their high-end, in-house codec in their $3K cameras. I know S-Log isn't RAW but Redcode is Red's high-end codec.
That's all I was trying to say with that.
 
Omar N said:
If it was ProRes only, I don't see how it would really be any different than the URSA mini, except for maybe higher frame rates
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It would be different because URSA Mini shoots RAW. RED without RAW would be hard to sell.
 
I think people may be interpreting 4K4ALL a little too literally. I'm not sure RED are competing with A7 or Blackmagic. They are more likely trying to give RED customers an alternative to C300 MK2 and FS7, within the Weapon family.

Specs/price will most likely correspond to past and previous SCARLET releases.

Which means a brain anywhere btw $7-15K depending on specs (and there may be several tiers for all we know).
 
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