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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Mike P. said:
Yeah, but you're suggesting current REDusers talking about RED cameras on a RED forum is a sign of successful marketing... That's a little myopic.
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No, THATS successful marketing. You start with the group you have access too and let them carry the message. How many potential RED RAVEN buyers attended IBC? Now one would answer: Everyone who attended. And how many potential buyers are on reducer...? Still guesswork, but "everyone" would't be as unlikely anymore. You could probably saturate the first batch with pre-orders from this forum alone.

As for mount: I guess it will be Canon. If they're trying to fish in the sub 10K market, most non-PL shooters will have Canon glass.
I also still believe this camera is all about limiting options compared to the "classic" RED offerings, while kicking some competitors balls.
Clean 4K 120fps in r3d with fixed EOSmount would be enough for many in that market segment to consider going RED.
 
sam karr said:
We all know by experience that there will be some drawbacks too. The cropped sensor can be one. The price, the compression, the mount can be too. And then the excitement turns into disappointment here and in the articles about the product. Double-edged sword.
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For me, The biggest disappointment would be for the RAVEN not to have REDCODE. I would assume that REDCODE was a guarantee with Red but since one of the photos Jared posted had the compression blurred out it scares me a little that this may just be a ProRes camera which would still be competitive but would personally bum me out.

For price, if the camera does actually do 4K @ 120fps with a Dragon sensor that is twice as fast as the Scarlet Dragon which is $15k for just the brain so I expect this brain to be around the $10-15k mark. That to me is not a " for all " statement and I foreshadow the this will be the biggest disappointment to all those wishing for a $5000 brain.

For Crop factor if it is a dragon Dragon pixel size and it has a 20.5mm sensor width then I will be very happy. I will not be happy if it is a little 1 inch or Micro 4/3rd sensor and I don't care if that makes things easier to focus. Micro 4/3rds always seemed to be a weird ratio to me for cinema use and most of the MFT sensors are only 17mm wide and just do not feel right. The Blackmagic 4k S35 is 21mm and a lot of APS-C "S35" cameras are in the 21-23mm size. Even the Alexa isn't a true Super 35mm sensor as it is only 23.7mm wide.
 
Very confused!

Very confused!

Red will come with a new great camera. No surprise there. Here is my confusion. 4K4ALL. Now, is it for all people, or for all applications? Big difference!
Jarred has specifically made mention of the new DJI drones, and with the name, for sure The Raven will be the small crash cam red owners have been waiting for and non red owners can use to get in the wagon, BUT, will it be cheap? With a dragon sensor and 4k @ 120fps, I certainly doubt it. This is where my confusion gets bigger. Jarred spcifically said, they are not afraid of Black Magic, after so many people mentioned the thread of the mini ursa and the infamous 15 stops of dynamic range.
So I see 2 options:

1 The raven has a smaller dragon sensor. To me this would be a no winner. Many will buy a cam with a small sensors, will it be a hit. No. Small sensors suck. Argue all you want. Less low light, more noise, less dynamic range. Please dont make it this option.
2 Red still is ahead in the tech they have and they make it possible to have a small brain with S35mm sensor and shoot at high speed. They will call it Raven, make it in a ready to shoot body and sell it for $5000 + media and batteries. This is not exactly 4Kfor all, what what will happen is that this camera will make all scarlets drop in half or more in price, which will in fact make 4k4all argument a reality.

Some one please enlighten me with other options. I really dont see them, but hell, I am sooo freaking excited!
 
OK. Let me speculate...

My bet is: Disruptive (which of course will make a lot of redusers yell... :) )

Scarlet was even released the same day as the C300

And even though i thoroughly hate the C300, MKI, I think it looks like Canon has done a few right things with MK II, just judging the images.

My bet is that Raven is pitted against C300 MK II and that is a market worth looking at. (Canon has some really good tech there in the C500, When I was joining the CML test, THAT was the camera that surprised me a bit).
If Scarlet had done prores at its release, I keep thinking the C300 story would have been pretty different.

Thus I think Raven does prores. And RAW.
Scaled prores from S35.

I think it's small enough to fly, and has the wireless connections needed to do RCP commands all the way.
RCP is the smartest thing RED has done since R3D.
Wouldn't be surprised to see RED cooperating with DJI.

It has a fixed mount and a plastic shell to keep mass down and apparently can do 4k @ 120fps.

THAT spec doesn't indicate that 4k is full sensor.
RED does oversampling. And "real" 4k.

It's basically a small remote head and sold with a license of Foolcontrol II (Android or iOS)

Slap on any monitor you can afford, load a 120GB mag which is bundled with it, and you're good to go with a remotely controllable camera.
I hope they don't skip the ctrl and ethernet ports and rely solely on wifi interaction.

It will be aggressively priced, have a built in TC unit and they have made the genlock setup easy and friendly.
It's small, but pro.

You can buy it with either a touch or a non-touch screen, as you please.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
It's basically a small remote head and sold with a license of Foolcontrol II (Android or iOS)
.
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I think the only thing we do know, that Raven is in a full weapon sized body so I think you may of missed that one. I hope it isn't plastic. Full sized body makes sense because then you can use all the accessories just like Scarlet could use Epic accessories. Little small sensor phantom cameras for a DJI type helicopter doesn't sound like it is needed in the market as it looks like DJI is doing a good job on that on their own.
 
Alex Larson said:
I think the only thing we do know, that Raven is in a full weapon sized body so I think you may of missed that one. I hope it isn't plastic. Full sized body makes sense because then you can use all the accessories just like Scarlet could use Epic accessories. Little small sensor phantom cameras for a DJI type helicopter doesn't sound like it is needed in the market as it looks like DJI is doing a good job on that on their own.
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Yes. And my guess is as good as anyones.
I guess it will be tempting, though.
And the aimed at C300 MK II idea seems right both in timing and... well... timing... :)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
OK. Let me speculate...

My bet is: Disruptive (which of course will make a lot of redusers yell... :) )

Scarlet was even released the same day as the C300

And even though i thoroughly hate the C300, MKI, I think it looks like Canon has done a few right things with MK II, just judging the images.

My bet is that Raven is pitted against C300 MK II and that is a market worth looking at. (Canon has some really good tech there in the C500, When I was joining the CML test, THAT was the camera that surprised me a bit).
If Scarlet had done prores at its release, I keep thinking the C300 story would have been pretty different.

Thus I think Raven does prores. And RAW.
Scaled prores from S35.

I think it's small enough to fly, and has the wireless connections needed to do RCP commands all the way.
RCP is the smartest thing RED has done since R3D.
Wouldn't be surprised to see RED cooperating with DJI.

It has a fixed mount and a plastic shell to keep mass down and apparently can do 4k @ 120fps.

THAT spec doesn't indicate that 4k is full sensor.
RED does oversampling. And "real" 4k.

It's basically a small remote head and sold with a license of Foolcontrol II (Android or iOS)

Slap on any monitor you can afford, load a 120GB mag which is bundled with it, and you're good to go with a remotely controllable camera.
I hope they don't skip the ctrl and ethernet ports and rely solely on wifi interaction.

It will be aggressively priced, have a built in TC unit and they have made the genlock setup easy and friendly.
It's small, but pro.

You can buy it with either a touch or a non-touch screen, as you please.
Click to expand...

Hoping you are awarded "best guesser" when it is released.
 
Adam Rook said:
I do hope you are right on this one. I mainly shoot architecture and so the largest FOV I can squeeze out of a sensor the better. I continually find myself in tight spaces attempting to fill the screen with as much as possible. Ultra-wide lenses are my bread and butter and that's the reason a full-frame camera is quite appealing to me.
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I obviously don't know the context of that statement, but would you not be better off with, say, a Leica S for architecture, if that is mainly what you do, and if you're going to spend that much?

Speed Booster is a good thing, but I am a bit suspicious of how it will treat highlights.


Ben Scott said:
The thing about E mount is that it is easily adaptable to just about every mount out there. On my Full Frame A7s and my S35mm FS7 I regularly use EF, Contax, Leica R ad Nikon glass. Plus plenty of PL mounts out there for it too.
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Boom.

ari+best.png


Leica M lenses did not work very well with earlier Sony A7 bodies, but only if you used them in full-frame mode. For Super-35 they were pretty good, actually. Sony's newer sensors are even better, and some people now prefer Sony bodes to Leica bodies when using M lenses. And let's remember that a lot of productions will use a S35 crop, and in that case, the worse-case scenario would be excellent performance with M lenses.

Of course nobody will be using M lenses full-time on cinema cameras, but at least you have the choice with the Sony E mount. It's like a reserve power - if you really want it.
 
Ben Scott said:
The thing about E mount
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Side not and totally off topic. Beware of which PL mount adapters you use with E-Mount. Some have some issues in regards to S35 and FF35 shooting.
 
If the camera can go 4k 120 fps, then it can go 5k for less frames than that, unless the sensor has a different size, is this right?
 
Anyone remember these discussions back in April?

Jarred Land said:
Thanks James. Are you suggesting just a pure Epic ---> Weapon type body upgrade, without the extra processing?

That is kind of interesting.
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Jarred Land said:
We are just spitballing here... but a pure form-factor upgrade from Epic to Weapon in aluminum form isn't the worst idea in the world.

Ears Open...
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Phil Holland said:
Side not and totally off topic. Beware of which PL mount adapters you use with E-Mount. Some have some issues in regards to S35 and FF35 shooting.
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Thanks for the heads up Phil.

Not done it yet but considering the WC or metabones ones. Heard anything to that effect with those?
 
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