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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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I just don't see how they can compete at the low end . 3 G s for new Sony . 4k ready to shoot with viewfinder monitor and records to sD cards . Oh, and image stabilization too.
 
I'm intrigued by the prospect of a new, cheaper RED camera. Perhaps something like this:


  • NOT upgradeable to a newer sensor
  • Micro 4/3 sensor size
  • Micro 4/3 lens mount (non-removable, but adaptable to any lenses)
  • 4K Dragon sensor with standard OLPF (non-removable)
  • 4K Redcode Raw recording to C-Fast cards (30p max)
  • Built-in C-Fast module (non-removable)
  • Built-in side handle with all necessary controls (non-removable)
  • Built-in Redvolt battery plate on the rear (non-removable)
  • HDMI ports for using whatever monitor & viewfinder from any company
  • $4000 for everything listed above

You get RED Dragon quality footage in 4K resolution, with none of the technical difficulties of making it compatible with other modules, and no crazy 6K resolution, or even ProRes (use a Shogun for that). There's no upgrade path for this camera. It's just a great indie film camera. All you need to add are lenses, C-Fast cards, batteries and a monitor. Lenses can be Micro 4/3, or PL with adapter, or Canon or Nikon with Speedbooster.

I think I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
 
Isn't that Black Magic? You can get that for two grand. Just saying the low end is well covered now.
 
I love Red and want them to sell lots, but they will have to bring some special sauce !
Can't wait to see what it is.
 
Timothy Jones said:
Isn't that Black Magic? You can get that for two grand. Just saying the low end is well covered now.
Click to expand...
The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K costs $3000, and its image quality is good, but definitely not RED Dragon good. A $4K RED Dragon camera that isn't modular but delivers stellar RAW image quality would be very welcome, as the A camera for indie films, or as a crash camera for big budget shoots.

The low end is well covered now, but so is the high end and everything in between. RED caters to the high end and middle budget crowd these days. A low-cost, non upgradeable camera is sorely lacking in their product offerings.
 
Price will determine this product's place. #4K4ALL certainly implies rock bottom prices, given that you can get 4k raw already for less than $4k (with built-in battery, monitor, global shutter, and inexpensive non-proprietary media)... I'm hoping FF35 DSLR-to-FS5 prices ($3500-$5500) or bust. And if it uses regular sized mags, I'll likely be getting one. Otherwise, I'll wait out used-Dragon prices when Weapon rolls out completely.

... Also, I don't see how a *fixed-mount* actually saves RED any money on the production side. All it does is lock people in to a given mount, which makes people in the entry-level segment apprehensive about buying. At least E-mount can be adapted to everything because the flange distance is so short.

And isn't 4k dragon closer to m43 in size?
 
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even though it says 4k4all. I don't think they are going to try and get into the lower end 4k market. Scarlet dragon brain is 14,500. I got my scarlet mx with ssd and canon mount as a battle tested and it was quite a bit less then that. I'm hoping for something in the sub 10,000 range. Perhaps a trade in offer in the works for the scarlet mx that doesn't cost more then the entire camera in the first place. That's my hopes anyway :)
 
Mike P. said:
... Also, I don't see how a *fixed-mount* actually saves RED any money on the production side. All it does is lock people in to a given mount, which makes people in the entry-level segment apprehensive about buying. At least E-mount can be adapted to everything because the flange distance is so short.
Click to expand...
Micro 4/3 mount is also adaptable to practically everything, just like Sony E-mount (very short flange distance). Nikon, Canon EF, Canon FD, PL, Leica, C-mount, etc. Practically any lens can be accommodated, which is why I suggested it. And there are LOTS of native Micro 4/3 lenses out there now, compared to E-Mount. Panasonic lenses with OIS, Olympus, Voigtlander f/0.95 lenses are amazing in low light, and Veydra Mini-Primes look gorgeous. Plus, with a Micro 4/3 sensor, you can use Speedboosters for even better results with full frame glass from Canon or Nikon. The Canon EF speedbooster can now do autofocus and stabilization as well.
 
Hmm, I like speculation. I'll play, too. :-)

S35 Dragon-based sensor, 4:3 aspect (so, we're talking something about the size of 4-perf 35mm); Redcode only; compact form factor; 5K (for true 4K); 120fps; standard, all-round low-pass filter; no windowing modes; minimal modularity.
 
Very excited for this. Looks like it's in an advanced state of readiness too, which makes me hopeful for more info soon. Love it Jarred!
 
@jaime, in that case (mft mount on 4k dragon/mft-sized sensor) I can understand it... But how exactly does modular SSD and accessories actually cost RED *more* to produce? If anything, it shoots them in the foot for future upgrades and still inhibits those that skipped the DSMC-to-Dragon-upgrade. That mentality would only drive the price lower otherwise people in that segment wouldn't bite... Like $2500 FF35/4k DSLR territory.

I think RED should spill the beans, otherwise the same consumers this camera is aimed at are gonna scoop up A7sIIs/A7rIIs/FS5/UrsaMinis before this thing is even officially announced.

EDIT: I like Karim's thinking... though I doubt 120fps (at any crop). And it's still very much price dependent.
 
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Integrated EF mount, Dragon sensor with the new standard OFLF, 4k or better 5k R3D (no prores), miniSSD, aluminum body, weapon body and modularity.
Price around 6-7k. This make sense.
 
Im thinking of all those mx sensors and boards red got laying around from the dragon upgrade program.
Making a far less costly body with fixed mount and old / used sensors and low cost boards that only goes to lower frame rates but still fits into the red eco system. Thats what i would do if I was red and I would probably call it the gate way drug :)
 
I don't know . I just can't think of a spot in the market that's not already covered pretty well already .

The Black Magic Ursa mini is looking really good and it's cheap.

A clue might have been given on Jarred's Facebook last night when he announced the DJI 4 k camera ?
i though it was strange that he would say anything about it.
is it possible Red is making these?
 
Björn Benckert said:
Im thinking of all those mx sensors and boards red got laying around from the dragon upgrade program.
Making a far less costly body with fixed mount and old / used sensors and low cost boards that only goes to lower frame rates but still fits into the red eco system. Thats what i would do if I was red and I would probably call it the gate way drug :)
Click to expand...

Yeah exactly. The Scarlet Dragon is already out there and it's made for 4K. You don't want more compression than what that give you. So I'm thinking that it's either old boards or they are new boards but with cheaper manufacture and parts. The body looks a bit plastic so it might be a very cheap construct based on the old MX sensor. If this is actually 4.5K with an MX sensor and the cost were super low, it might just be a true DSLR killer. I mean, the Sony A7S II is good and all, but 4.5K R3D Raw in a body that's a bit better for actual cinematic work... for maybe a price close to or under the Sony, that would be an awesome addition to the market of low cost systems. And the best thing is, you might actually get a real Red camera for crash cam work
:tongue_smilie:

Timothy Jones said:
The Black Magic Ursa mini is looking really good and it's cheap.
Click to expand...

It's workflow for CinemaDNG is through the roof. What are you going to do when you have 20 hours of CinemaDNG footage? R3Ds have a much better workflow.
 
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