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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K vs 1080p in the home

Samir Patel

Samir Patel

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Ok so we know we are moving into a 4k world and yes eventually TV sets will become affordable for the home but what will television viewing really be like in the next few years? I remember I was one of the early HD adopters back in college. I saved up every extra penny to buy an RCA tube television with HD (and built in Direct TV) that was one beast of a television (in terms of weight). However I remember those days that even HD channels were only limited to a few options and so all Standard def content was upscalled in the television. I thought it looked horrendous.

So I am curious. I expect eventually everyone will broadcast in 4K. But for the near term I suspect many broadcasters will continue broadcasting in 1080p. Are we going to be subject to the same poor upscalling from 1080p to 4K as we were from SD to HD? Especially with so many cable companies compressing content to high hell along the way?
 
4K is coming home in a big way.

The initial content I think will actually be better than what HD had to often when it first penetrated the market. Mostly due to things like REDRAY, ODEMAX, Sony, Netflix, and soon Google. The paradighm of how to deliver content to viewers has changed a great deal over the last few years.

I imagine what is on "deep cable" now would likely be the last to adopt 4K delivery, but premiere companies are going to be focusing on it for sure. Broadcast will get there next year at some point, but companies like HBO and Showtime will have content either shooting or in the works soon to be finished at 4K.

So, yeah, I think upscaling is a reality for the time being. However, I think we'll be surprised by how quickly 4K content starts flooding the airwaves. Good for all of us. Sporting events and stations are already exploring the possiblities. We'll be watching the NBA in 4K after this season's over. Might be able to do it during playoffs this season even.

There are also several companies "remastering" older films at 4K now that haven't been publicly announced.
 
Yes I remember back then it was the major networks who had HD first and then also HBO/Showtime etc and HDNet. Forgot that many companies can always just rescan film to higher resolutions.

On a side note I was watching the Cotto/Trout boxing match earlier this week and noticed at the end that during the interview some guy off to the side filming with a handheld Epic or Scarlet. That was fun. It was like finding an Easter egg while watching a show. I just hope many cable broadcasters don't hold off on full blown 4K and just upscalling most of their content.
 
ABC will be the first major network to go 4K. They have already ordered their series begin filming and finishing in 4K for the new year. They were the last to HD and at 720p last time, this time they want to be first.
 
Yeah, the bottle neck will be content. Even now, we have normal DVDs and SD all over the place. That's what we have to make the content and usher in a whole new world.

Samir Patel said:
Ok so we know we are moving into a 4k world and yes eventually TV sets will become affordable for the home but what will television viewing really be like in the next few years? I remember I was one of the early HD adopters back in college. I saved up every extra penny to buy an RCA tube television with HD (and built in Direct TV) that was one beast of a television (in terms of weight). However I remember those days that even HD channels were only limited to a few options and so all Standard def content was upscalled in the television. I thought it looked horrendous.

So I am curious. I expect eventually everyone will broadcast in 4K. But for the near term I suspect many broadcasters will continue broadcasting in 1080p. Are we going to be subject to the same poor upscalling from 1080p to 4K as we were from SD to HD? Especially with so many cable companies compressing content to high hell along the way?
Click to expand...
 
Matt Ryan said:
ABC will be the first major network to go 4K. They have already ordered their series begin filming and finishing in 4K for the new year. They were the last to HD and at 720p last time, this time they want to be first.
Click to expand...

Now that is interesting.

Where did you hear this news?
 
Two Thoughts:

Story is all that matters unless they all need retooling.

Do we have the original films for I Love Lucy to scan?

I'll wait for 4K sets to reach Walmart! :emote_popcorn:

Rosco

P.S. Sorry that was three thoughts!
 
Michael Hardwick said:
Now that is interesting.

Where did you hear this news?
Click to expand...

From an ABC executive. They screwed up and lost out on the HD switchover, so they are making sure to be one of the first to 4K.
 
Not sure I'd think of traditional "broadcast" sources as the leader in delivering 4K content. IMO you are likely to get it sooner via online-based sources, such as ODEMAX. Broadcast networks, having to satisfy over-the-air specifications, are going to have more difficulty early on.
 
Samir Patel said:
Well if ABC is in the mix then I suspect ESPN will be too and Disney. So are we to expect the next Star Wars to be shot on EPIC? hmmm.
Click to expand...

Most likely shot on Sony...
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Not sure I'd think of traditional "broadcast" sources as the leader in delivering 4K content. IMO you are likely to get it sooner via online-based sources, such as ODEMAX. Broadcast networks, having to satisfy over-the-air specifications, are going to have more difficulty early on.
Click to expand...

true, but distribution through satellite and cable providers is already set up and paid for for years to come. So it would take quite a bit to get networks to switch over to a new system and pay for that as well. Plus, you would need a REDRay to support ODEMAX, and most households won't pay $1,400 just to get a player, then have to buy an expensive 4K tv on top of that. It will be a while, so the most viable solution if for broadcast to convert, for the sake of the consumer. ODEMAX is the wave of the future, but right now way too expensive for entry. But they will most likely be the first to deliver 4k content. Sadly, we have no tv's to take advantage of it that are reasonably priced...
 
Matt - distribution through satellite and cable may be "set up" but broadcasters are beholden to do just that... broadcast (i.e. deliver over the air, too). So, they are going to have additional hurdles to get to a full delivery model. And at what data rates? I don't disagree that there are challenges to services like ODEMAX, due to their specific model, but services like YouTube and other online-based delivery systems don't have those issue and also don't have the constraints of over the air broadcast issues.

Oh, and I am not sure I see broadcasters doing anything "for the sake of the consumer." LOL
 
Completely agree, I'm just saying from a consumer standpoint, broadcast is cheaper... The data rates need to be vastly increased for both broadcast and for internet services. The US is lacking most everywhere else. Was it Brandon J.F that was paying $25/month and getting 100mb/sec data rates in Latvia? I'm paying $40/month and lucky if I get a peak of 10mb/sec. All these US companies are really holding out to make a larger profit. Hopefully people will wake up and push companies to move way forward and stop ripping us off. End rant.

ODEMAX is the best option and will continue to be. I just think the cost of entry is counterproductive to a consumer base. I don't mind paying for the service monthly, but I don't want to have to buy a $1,400 box just to get the monthly service. If the cost of entry comes down, or is included in a monthly service fee, then that would be ideal.
 
I don't think we disagree about anything except maybe timing. Broadcasters have a very big infrastructure to convert in order to handle the movement of much more data to the transmitter. Meanwhile, online providers can always resort to caching schemes to offer content in non-real time.

As an aside, I expect to see REDRay boxes (and similar others) come down in price pretty quickly.
 
It is a very interesting bit of history in digital filmmaking to chart the path of the Star Wars prequels.

George, Rick McCallum and Fred Meyers really made the choices and didn't have to convince anyone else.

On Phantom Menace we shot VFX sequences on 8 perf Vista Vision, 4 perf scope, as well as Mini DV believe it or not. On Clones it was Panavisied F900's with PV glass, which was later swapped for Fujinon.
On Sith it was all Sony F950's with Fujinon.

Who knows. Disney has good results with the Marvel films shooting in 4 perf PV anamorphic, Genesis, and recently with Alexa on the Avengers.

Relatively recently on the "Redtails" reshoots with Mr. Lucas, Macallum and Meyers - we were full blown F35 fiber interface with Masterprimes and Optimos. Oh and Phillip Bloom was there too, representing the DSLR contingent. Rick mentioned he was seriously considering shooting a Star Wars TV show in Canon DSLR.

So who knows. But the worm has turned in a big way... and I'm sure the decision is no longer so cut and dried.

Those were some good times
 
I think it's going to take quite a while for Joe Schmo consumer to give into 4K and actually buy new TV's. The economy sucks as well. I think it'll happen, but nowhere near as quick as some advocate. Even if the TV's get into the homes, I still know TONS of people who don't care about the difference between a DVD and a Blu-ray. I see crackly TV signals, they think it's fine. This is a forum full of people who want to see technology move forward, but it's really not going to become mainstream in a big way until the average joe sees the benefit and cares enough to toss those HDTV's they probably just bought on Black Friday away to get a 4K display. That'll take a lot of education and even then you have an uphill battle.

It'll come, but I think it'll be a while.
 
I want 4K to come in all cinemas first, tho. 2K is killing me on a big screen.
 
2k cinema projection is awful, I agree. But as I type this I'm watching a clear HD signal on a decently new 50 inch TV and I have absolutely no problems with it. I can't think of anything left to be desired. I was a late switcher to HD in my home ($$$), and I couldn't be happier with it. I've never had an issue with soft images or images lacking any detail, as I've never seen it.

What I notice is soft, images on a giant theater screen. 2k projection bugs the living hell out of me, but for home viewing I'm more than happy with a clear HD signal.
 
t
Broadcasters have a very big infrastructure to convert in order to handle the movement of much more data to the transmitter.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree but the transition will be simpler than the transition to HD.
Remember we went from analogue 4:3 to digital+16:9 + HD.
This time the aspect ratio and delivery method remains unchanged.

Also TV manufacturers will figure out that 2k content will look better upressed to a 4K 84 inch set and so this we be a selling point initself.





Mike Brennan
 
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