4K out of DSMC cameras?

[Daniel Stilling]

I know, you're probably scratching your head thinking: what kind of a question is that?
those cameras are 4K, 5K, (soon to be)6K...

What I mean is, with the crop of new 4K monitors coming out, including the Sony's and the Seiki, will we be able to see 4K monitoring straight out of our cameras? Through the SDI or HDMI ports?
I'm sure there soon will be smaller and production friendly 4K monitors, and I'd love to drive those with 4K out of the cameras. Will that be just a software upgrade in the future? Or does the hardware not live up to the strain?

 

[Andrew clemson]

Youll need at least a dual SDI out no?

 

[Daniel Stilling]

Youll need at least a dual SDI out no?

Maybe, maybe not... You can get 4K out of a single HDMI...

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

I don't see a point in this.
4k makes a difference at 3 ft away on a 6o" screen.
I don't think it's very practical to haul a 60" monitor to location or even studio.
On a 20" screen you can't really tell the difference even at 1 ft away.
I bet in a blind test the results would be inconclusive.I see live 4K out of camera as a lot of work for little reward.
But then there is hype marketing- I don't know much about that...:blushing:

 

[Sulekh Suman]

Sony F55 has 4K monitoring enabled which can also be used to record 4K Proxies(Pro Res) or DNxHD via an external recorder. For Epic, it will require 4K debayer in-camera which will also satisfy a lot of us currently hoping to record 4K/2K proxies via a module/ external recorder. HDMI out could be upgraded for 4H out. It's a feature request which will have to wait owing to current priorities at Red.

 

[Phil Holland]

We'll get there eventually.

I'm noticing a very visible difference on a 32" 4K monitor at about 2 feet, about how far I'm sitting right now.

In terms of on set capture it's not terribly needed, especially with good focus tools and the ability to zoom into a 1:1 pixel ratio. I see the desire/need for it during playback back at video village. So feeding a signal out could be important. HDMI 2.0 is here-ish, but HDMI is not as "production friendly" as HD-SDI for daily use.

A good 720p or 1080p monitor seems to be good for on camera. 4K in a 9 inch on board monitor seems crazy to me.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

Totally agree Phil.
I'm just waiting for that 1st client to ask me to look at 4K as we capture. I remember the film days when you had the picture of what you captured in your brain, and you could wow everyone later.
Now we are in the times of immediate gratification, and there's no way around us getting 4K production monitors in the 20"'s and 30"'s. You know it's going to happen, and I would hope that the RED's, that have been in the forefront of 4K capture all this time, will give us an option to output 4K when needed.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I can think of some applications for 4k output even without 4k monitoring:

1) 100% push-in on HD monitors for focus checking without disrupting recording.
2) 4K external recorders.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Lots of applications coming up for a 4K out. This really needs to happen with the Dragon upgrade, IMO, but it may not and could ultimately require another upgrade or module.

@Jacek, I usually agree with you, but this time I can't. A 24" 1080p monitor on a desk and a 24" UHD/4K monitor on a desk, at normal viewing distances, are night and day different. My eyes are good enough I see individual pixels and the gaps between them on my 30" 2.5K monitors when I sit with my eyeballs about 42 to 48 inches from the screen, normal viewing distance for me. Only reason I don't have a Sharp 4K PN-K321 monitor on my desktop at this very moment is because of how they implemented 4K input to that display. I've played with two different units so far and it exhibits terrible screen sheering at 60Hz between the two halves of the screen and nVidia's bonehead drivers can't be made to see it as a single display, trying to push everything to whichever one you have set up as the primary. On ATI it also has the screen sheering issue, but at least manages the two halves better. Dropping to 30Hz fixes it for both GPU types, but who wants to run their desktop display at 30Hz??? I want to run it at 120+Hz. So I'm holding off for DisplayPort 1.3 and HDMI 2.0 interfaces before buying. We'll have a lot more choices and cheaper prices when those interfaces hit the market about this time next year.

To add to what Gavin said, there were several companies at NAB showing off 4K routing, switching and live keying applications. Would love to use RED in some of those setups.

 

[David Kuhn]

Some folks are able to use that additional resolution, some aren't. I had an iPhone 4s (326ppi) up until recently and made the mistake of 'upgrading' to a Razr Maxx HD (312ppi)... both have higher density than a 4k 30" display (150-155ppi). I HATE the new display, the pixels are arranged in a way that makes straight lines zig-zag and makes it far worse for full web page viewing than the iPhone. Certainly to see that resolution I need to be close (advantage of being nearsighted), but I can and do use it (did use it anyway... curse Apple for changing their connector and pissing me off by obsoleting all my peripherals).
27" and 30" 2550 displays still lack enough resolution to not show aliasing and screendoor for most users (normal viewing distance under certain image conditions - high contrast areas), I think a 4k display would need much closer viewing to use all the resolution... You might need to get your face right in close to a 30" 4k monitor to make out some particular detail... but it would be nice to have that option.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Live 4K output from camera has a plethora of use cases. The F55 allows you to feed UHD or 4K directly over a HDMI 1.4a single cable solution OR 4xSDI, switchable on camera.

I would love to be able to snap a module onto the back of the Epic/Scarlet that fed out UHD/4K over fiber similar to the triax backs we've used for years in hard line EFP applications.

Cheers - #19

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

+1 on that