4K for the finish...

[PatrickFaith]

....
I want our customers to be at the forefront..
I would love for you guys, our customers, to prosper first. Be ready.
Be ready when that "4k for the masses" switch is flicked and the distributors start calling.
Jarred

Doing my part, I have been moving my systems to high end linux pc's (16 core units with 2k plus processing units), cloud and hybrid grids. I have also gotten almost all my packages running in linux so I can have a full workflow (i.e. for me it's nuke, modo, realflow) Only package now I don't have a time table to move to linux is redcine-x. I really haven't found anything comparable to redcine-x, it's just a great program. If i could even have a command line version of redcinex for linux it would be a great help. I'm shooting on monochrome so it's more important for me then most, to be using redcine on computers that have 24+ threads.

 

[Justin Barham]

Lemme see ... TOTAL 3D (Wide Releases Only): $13,314,975,281

That's domestic box office only. The top 100 3D wide release films - average per film, domestic only - $107,378,833.

That doesn't bode well for those of us wanting 4K projection in theaters I suppose. The message the suits are getting is 3D + VFX @ 2K = $$$.

 

[M Most]

Lemme see ... TOTAL 3D (Wide Releases Only): $13,314,975,281

That's domestic box office only. The top 100 3D wide release films - average per film, domestic only - $107,378,833.

And the total number of viewers for home consumption is???? Hint: according to virtually all studies, very, very low. Not to mention that the box office, both in total and as a percentage of overall take, on pictures released in 3D and 2D has declined steadily over the last 3 years. And not to mention that just because some viewers were willing to pay for it, that doesn't make it any less a gimmick....

Look, I really don't want to get into a 3D or not 3D conversation with this. I was just using it as an example.

 

[jake blackstone]

Doing my part, I have been moving my systems to high end linux pc's (16 core units with 2k plus processing units), cloud and hybrid grids. I have also gotten almost all my packages running in linux so I can have a full workflow (i.e. for me it's nuke, modo, realflow) Only package now I don't have a time table to move to linux is redcine-x. I really haven't found anything comparable to redcine-x, it's just a great program. If i could even have a command line version of redcinex for linux it would be a great help. I'm shooting on monochrome so it's more important for me then most, to be using redcine on computers that have 24+ threads.

Resolve runs on Linux. They even dropped the price of resolve to the same $1k, as on other platforms.

 

[PatrickFaith]

Resolve runs on Linux. They even dropped the price of resolve to the same $1k, as on other platforms.

Thanks, I didn't know that, last time i looked the linux price was like 20 times more. Seems like almost everyone is coming around to linux with rational pricing models. btw ... they are one of the few packages that allow playback of monochrome (i just looked it up .... version 9.1 has monochrome support).

 

[jake blackstone]

Thanks, I didn't know that, last time i looked the linux price was like 20 times more. Seems like almost everyone is coming around to linux with rational pricing models. btw ... they are one of the few packages that allow playback of monochrome (i just looked it up .... version 9.1 has monochrome support).

Yes it does decode monochrome. Unfortunately, last time I checked, I don't think you can just buy the license and install it on Linux. I think you MUST buy the BM panel for $30K, as no other panels work on Linux and with that you get a free Resolve license. So, you need to check with BM, if that had changed...

 

[Jarred Land]

That doesn't bode well for those of us wanting 4K projection in theaters I suppose. The message the suits are getting is 3D + VFX @ 2K = $$$.

Just over half of all the digital Screens in the US are now lit up by 4K projectors. Sony has installed 13,000 or so and Barco and Cristie adding a few thousand to round it out. As bank leases for projectors run out and projector prices falling like a rock, those numbers have been on a pretty upward swing. Of course... it is a limited market... only so much room for growth.

Last I checked there is about 40,000 screens in the US, 30,000 of those being digital.. and 16,000 of those 4k.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Just over half of all the digital Screens in the US are now lit up by 4K projectors. Sony has installed 13,000 or so and Barco and Cristie adding a few thousand to round it out. As bank leases for projectors run out and projector prices falling like a rock, those numbers have been on a pretty upward swing. Of course... it is a limited market... only so much room for growth.

Last I checked there is about 40,000 screens in the US, 30,000 of those being digital.. and 16,000 of those 4k.

So how about doing a lil something for those of us who want to work exclusively in the 4K realm throughout the post process, but don't have oodles of money? Not a cheeky question. Real serious about this.

 

[JoakimZiegler]

We've been pushing for "native finishing" for a while now. Basically, we do all CC, VFX, titling and finishing in the highest native resolution of the source material, and scale all other deliveries from there. It's not that hard, the hardware to do it is affordable, and you're as future-proofed as you can be. It's slightly heavy for Epic material, though, since 5k is still big and hw intensive, but we mostly just generate a 5k master for archiving. VFX work is and will for some time be the bottleneck, I think, but luckily, even for VFX, it's mostly a hardware issue, not so much an artist capacity issue (files get larger and take more CPU, but you're doing the same basic operations). So Moore's law should take care of that for a while.

And I don't just recommend this for Red material, btw. I'm currently doing post on one feature shot on ARRIRAW, which we're doing in 2880, and a feature shot on S16mm, which we're scanning and finishing in 3k.

 

[Michael Dalton]

The 30 terrabyte Red camera stock footage library of 4k (and 5k) footage I've shot since August 2007 seem to be positioned real well to cash in on this emerging demand for native 4k footage. We have the 4k footage - so come and get it networks and advertisers.

For us original early adopters and supporters of Red and their 4k push (me, Mark, Blair, Billy, Jeff, Ketch, Dino, David, Shawn, and so many others), there've been huge benefits - and they just keep on rolling along.

Thanks Red Team...its been a great ride ;-)))

Steve, seeing what you have done/are doing has pushed me to this thinking very quickly. I'm a bit late to the game compared to you guys, but with 10tb of wildlife footage and 6x one hour productions in 4k, I'm ahead of most. Thanks Red.

 

[Justin Barham]

Just over half of all the digital Screens in the US are now lit up by 4K projectors. Sony has installed 13,000 or so and Barco and Cristie adding a few thousand to round it out. As bank leases for projectors run out and projector prices falling like a rock, those numbers have been on a pretty upward swing. Of course... it is a limited market... only so much room for growth.

Last I checked there is about 40,000 screens in the US, 30,000 of those being digital.. and 16,000 of those 4k.

That's great progress and all. The capability is there now. But 2K from a 4K projector is still 2K. I get the impression that most of them are used for 3D or just 2K 2D.

 

[Michael Dalton]

Just over half of all the digital Screens in the US are now lit up by 4K projectors. Sony has installed 13,000 or so and Barco and Cristie adding a few thousand to round it out. As bank leases for projectors run out and projector prices falling like a rock, those numbers have been on a pretty upward swing. Of course... it is a limited market... only so much room for growth.

Last I checked there is about 40,000 screens in the US, 30,000 of those being digital.. and 16,000 of those 4k.

But Jared, that is thinking only USA, I'm in Tanzania Africa, and the potential for a place like Africa to open up theatre is enormous, especially with digital distribution. We have only few theatres here with falling prices on projectors, the potential is huge.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

If you have to finish in 2k then you need to at least finish in a way that allows for a 4k re-release later. In a way that it won't hack your potential down like that... Otherwise you are not paying enough attention to the business side of show business. Budget for post. 4k will be the bread and butter for a while, like everything else before it, and soon enough it won't cost more than an HD TV cost you a few years ago. HD is simply not enough for the living room. It certainly isn't enough for the big screen. And if you don't like certain detail, budget properly for post and enable yourself to deliver a symphony through more of the notes that our eyes can see.

 

[Dave Blackham]

We are already finishing in 4K. What Im interesting is encoding tools for 4K delivery.

And where is that 4k projector ? theres budget now to purchase a number of them.

 

[Chase M. Wrenn]

Just over half of all the digital Screens in the US are now lit up by 4K projectors. Sony has installed 13,000 or so and Barco and Cristie adding a few thousand to round it out. As bank leases for projectors run out and projector prices falling like a rock, those numbers have been on a pretty upward swing. Of course... it is a limited market... only so much room for growth.

Last I checked there is about 40,000 screens in the US, 30,000 of those being digital.. and 16,000 of those 4k.

Do you happen to have any stats on how many of those have 4K server blocks?

 

[L. Langer]

Do you happen to have any stats on how many of those have 4K server blocks?

All of them. 4K media servers are part of the projector financing agreements that were made.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Steve, seeing what you have done/are doing has pushed me to this thinking very quickly. I'm a bit late to the game compared to you guys, but with 10tb of wildlife footage and 6x one hour productions in 4k, I'm ahead of most. Thanks Red.

You shoot excellent Red camera 4k wildlife and adventure travel footage Michael, and those genres are always in solid demand - so all of that footage that you own the rights to is a goldmine, and will be increasingly in the months and years ahead! Beyond the front end revenue and ROI you realized on your projects you're now in a very good position to cash in on the ancillary revenue from your efforts by selling and/or licensing out that top quality 4k and 5k footage.

Its the old iceberg analogy - one tenth of the berg is visible above the water (front end revenue), and the other nine tenths of the berg is out of sight below the water surface (ancillary revenue). The rest of the revenue berg is about to be revealed.

Good times ahead my friend...

 

[M Most]

All of them. 4K media servers are part of the projector financing agreements that were made.

Absolutely untrue. Sony has been selling 4K projectors for a number of years now. The integrated media block was an option, and most of the ones sold were 2K. The situation may be different this year, but that has been the case for a while now.

 

[AndrewThomas]

All of them. 4K media servers are part of the projector financing agreements that were made.

Not true. I'm in the theater business (own my own five screen) and I know tons of theaters that opted from 2k servers as opposed to IMBs. Most 4K projectors in cinemas are showing 2K content from 2K sources. I expect that to change soon as the last date of install for theaters who signed VPF agreements is happening in stages throughout the rest of the year (Actually December 31st for Cinedigm, March 31st for Sony, April 30th for GDC, and September 30th for Christie). With subsidies for equipment ending and the remaining theaters who didn't meet VPF requirements for one reason or another and in desperate need of transitioning to digital, the cost of all these units is likely to see a significant drop.

I mean, no big surprise that the cheaper Ti S2k based projectors for smaller screens started finding their way into the retail channels RIGHT AFTER VPF signups ended. The trend will undoubtedly continue as theaters are now on the hook for all the costs of these digital units.

 

[Chase M. Wrenn]

Not true. I'm in the theater business (own my own five screen) and I know tons of theaters that opted from 2k servers as opposed to IMBs. Most 4K projectors in cinemas are showing 2K content from 2K sources. I expect that to change soon as the last date of install for theaters who signed VPF agreements is happening in stages throughout the rest of the year (Actually December 31st for Cinedigm, March 31st for Sony, April 30th for GDC, and September 30th for Christie). With subsidies for equipment ending and the remaining theaters who didn't meet VPF requirements for one reason or another and in desperate need of transitioning to digital, the cost of all these units is likely to see a significant drop.

I mean, no big surprise that the cheaper Ti S2k based projectors for smaller screens started finding their way into the retail channels RIGHT AFTER VPF signups ended. The trend will undoubtedly continue as theaters are now on the hook for all the costs of these digital units.

That's what I thought, and had heard, thanks for the info. Keep hearing about 4K projectors at certain locations, which is somewhat useless if it's not a truly 4K source (to the projector).