4K for All.

[M Most]

D

Based on the early stuff I'm seeing from CES 2015 I have to say this is really going to be a massive year for UHD 4K and 4K with a little bit of 4K+ thrown in there for good measures.

I think the only thing you can conclude from a show like CES is that this will be a year of massive marketing for UHD. Whether it gets serious consumer traction is yet to be seen. You might have said exactly the same thing about 3D 3 or 4 years ago.

Consumers want what they want. Manufacturers can encourage but they can't control past a certain point. The pricing has to be right, the content they want to see (not just any content, but the things they watch now and want to keep watching) needs to be available (and probably for no more money than the HD versions they enjoy now), and it all needs to be as simple as plugging in a cable box. I don't see all of that happening in a year. Eventually? Sure, probably. But any time anyone says something like "this is the year that....." it almost inevitably isn't.

 

[Mark Andersen]

Until I find one that works with my UltraStudio 4K, I will just sit on the fence and create 4K material

Im confused by this statement, I have a The UltraStudio 4K and it works with pretty much anything that takes HDMI, which should be everything.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I got one of the early HD flat screens, but it was only 720P and had no HDMI inputs, so within a few years I had to replace it... meaning I'm going to wait a few years for the 4K monitor technology to mature before I invest in one for the home. To me, considering the lack of 4K content out there, I think of a 4K home monitor as a super high-quality HD monitor.

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

As usual I agree with David. Pixel density is a real help to LCD IQ, so these likely are very, very good 1080p monitors, just as 3D TVs were usually the best 2D monitors, even if you had no interest in home 3D viewing. But how many people have 4K at home or feel they need it? How can any new tech spread very far with a middle class now resigned to long term poverty, and continuing to slowly inch downward?

 

[L. Langer]

I think this will be the year that the 4K ball gets rolling but I don't think it's "The Year of 4K". 2016-2020 is when consumers will be getting on the 4K bandwagon. Right now, things are just at the end of the early-adopter stage, when companies are getting on the 4K Gravy Train. In 2016, HDMI 2.0 and DP 1.3 will be the standard connectivity for GPUs and HEVC/VP9 decoding are supposed to be built into the hardware, so that's when things will really go wide as consumers tend to upgrade every few years, particularly when money is tight. Nvidia and AMD will both be rolling out stacked memory GPUs in 2016, leading to a big increase in GPU performance and monitor internals to drive 4K/5K displays should be greatly improved in 2016/2017.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

If the average consumer bought a 50" 1080P TV set just a few years ago, I think they will wait a few years before they upgrade to a 4K monitor unless they are very flush with cash or like to be on the cutting edge of consumer trends.

 

[Phil Holland]

D

I think the only thing you can conclude from a show like CES is that this will be a year of massive marketing for UHD. Whether it gets serious consumer traction is yet to be seen. You might have said exactly the same thing about 3D 3 or 4 years ago.

Consumers want what they want. Manufacturers can encourage but they can't control past a certain point. The pricing has to be right, the content they want to see (not just any content, but the things they watch now and want to keep watching) needs to be available (and probably for no more money than the HD versions they enjoy now), and it all needs to be as simple as plugging in a cable box. I don't see all of that happening in a year. Eventually? Sure, probably. But any time anyone says something like "this is the year that....." it almost inevitably isn't.

Heh. You can search the net and even talk to the folks I worked with on Life of Pi. 3D isn't something I feel would catch on for a home viewership. I have many theories on why and most of them stem from 3D isn't a "casual watch" and the technology on how people wanted to bring it into homes isn't something most people want to deal with. There might be a time where this can change and viewers will have an easier time approaching 3D for casual viewing, but it hasn't happened. Even more, not all content benefit's from what 3D has to offer and especially not in relationship to how people watch moving pictures in the home.

Now 4K and 4K+ on the other side, that's a whole different thing. Everything can benefit from it and it's easy for the viewer to ingest. The first month when I started at my old studio I was shown content scanned at 4K and finished out at 4K via the Lux (before we had the Arrilaser) as well as 4K to 2K and the more common 4K to 2K "upscaled and sharpned" back to 4K, which actually happened on nearly ever film that went through the studio. That became what I did for some time and I knew right then and there that this industry needed to go that route. At that time it was just far too expensive to bring 4K into homes. Now it's really not. I have higher resolution material outputted on the CRT based Solitaires in 70mm IMAX and even a few 4x5" stills which were created around 12K and 16K. 4K, 8K, and likely 16K one day is where this monster is heading and I have no doubts about that (though 8K for finish might be where 2D in the home tops out in the future).

Content will drive this transition and right now 4K production is experiencing exponential growth. 4K and 4K+ cameras have now been in peoples hands for years and it's time to really let them loose. Studios are becoming less shy about 4K and there's a healthy amount of production now happening with more on the way.

The reason I'm excited about 2015 as a notable year for 4K is for the stuff that's currently in production and the numerous streaming services that deliver to Smart TVs that will be doing UHD 4K this year. And a good chunk of them have content incoming. And I'll keep saying it because I've seen it. The second particularly football, soccer, basketball, baseball, and tennis are rocking 4K broadcast you'll see a 3-6 month window where availability of that content leads to peak in adoption levels. Sports broadcasting really, really benefits from the resolution.

So I'll stand by this being a "massive year for 4K".

 

[L. Langer]

Just wanted to put out there that the new 4K Smart TVs shipping this year from Sony, LG, and Sharp are supporting VP9 streaming from the get-go. That bit of news seems to have been buried amongst the avalanche of other TV stuff from CES. Still no real word on 4K Blu-Ray, but it has been seen and talked about at CES this year along with high-end consumer 4K camcorders.

 

[Matt Ryan]

You guys really need to check out the Vizio P series UHDTV's. I have one and am blown away by the quality, color, contrast, sharpness, etc. On black friday the 50" model was selling for $698. Can't beat that. Netflix and other apps built in, 4K netflix looks incredible. Check it out if you have the opportunity. The out of box settings on the tv are pretty nasty, but once it's calibrated it's breathtaking.

 

[Les Dittert]

You guys really need to check out the Vizio P series UHDTV's. I have one and am blown away by the quality, color, contrast, sharpness, etc. On black friday the 50" model was selling for $698. Can't beat that. Netflix and other apps built in, 4K netflix looks incredible. Check it out if you have the opportunity. The out of box settings on the tv are pretty nasty, but once it's calibrated it's breathtaking.

Matt, my p-series sometimes skips frames on the 60p UHD test video on netflix. ( search for 'ultra hd', the two test films are the ones with just the netflix red logo ).
I don't think it's my internet connection.
I agree, the Visio's have a great picture, the active backlight really makes it pop.

 

[L. Langer]

Okay, the beans have been spilled on 4K Blu-Ray. It will be called "Ultra HD Blu-Ray" and the content will be on 66GB/100GB discs, encoded in h.265/h.264. A bunch of features are present in the draft spec, including 10-bit color, expanded color gamut, HDR, and a new digital copying scheme for watching media on the PC and portable devices. Support for the latest and upcoming digital audio formats is also present. It's possible that the new format might make it into stores by Christmas but it's not likely unless they can push forward with the spec finalization, which they haven't. Otherwise, we'll see it debut at CES 2016.

 

[Phil Holland]

Okay, the beans have been spilled on 4K Blu-Ray. It will be called "Ultra HD Blu-Ray" and the content will be on 66GB/100GB discs, encoded in h.265/h.264. A bunch of features are present in the draft spec, including 10-bit color, expanded color gamut, HDR, and a new digital copying scheme for watching media on the PC and portable devices. Support for the latest and upcoming digital audio formats is also present. It's possible that the new format might make it into stores by Christmas but it's not likely unless they can push forward with the spec finalization, which they haven't. Otherwise, we'll see it debut at CES 2016.

Here's the spec from the Panasonic Player:

4K / 60p
High speed display in 60 frames per second of 4K video (3,840 x 2,160 pixels - Ultra HD), which has four times the resolution of Full Hi-vision, for highly detailed videos with extremely smooth movement.

10-bit gradation
Previous Blu-ray Discs displayed the color signals (Y, Cb, Cr) in 8-bit gradation each (256 gradations). By expanding this to 10-bit gradation each (1,024 gradations), even minute signals can be faithfully reproduced to realize richly textured video.

High Dynamic Range
A technology that drastically expands the brightness peak from the previous 100 nit to 1,000-10,000 nit, marking a significant leap in the dynamic range of the picture. Bright light sources (e.g. lights or rays of the sun) and reflected light (from metal or water) that up to now were difficult to display can now be shown in rich textures.

BT.2020 wide color gamut
Compliant with the ITU-R BT.2020 wide color gamut signal formulated for 4K/8K broadcasting. Enables vividly rich coloration not previously possible on Blu-ray discs (BT.709 standard).
*also compliant with 709.

HEVC (H.265) / 100Mbps
Support for the highest 100Mbps video signal using the latest high-efficiency video compression technology. Compression efficiency and high bit rate far beyond previous Blu-ray discs (MPEG-4/AVC (H.264), maximum 40Mbps) enabling outstanding playback of high quality video with 4K/60p/10bit, High Dynamic Range, BT.2020, etc.

Source:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/panasonic-exhibits-prototype-of-worlds-first1-next-generation-blu-ray-disc-player-at-ces-2015-300015515.html

 

[Matt Ryan]

Matt, my p-series sometimes skips frames on the 60p UHD test video on netflix. ( search for 'ultra hd', the two test films are the ones with just the netflix red logo ).
I don't think it's my internet connection.
I agree, the Visio's have a great picture, the active backlight really makes it pop.

Hey Les, my internet is sporadic so I only get 4k at certain times. I'll test at the next available window

 

[Maik Müller]

Here's the spec from the Panasonic Player:



Source:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...lu-ray-disc-player-at-ces-2015-300015515.html

Pretty nice. I really like all the news about improving colors and HDR. (And we shoot REDRAW here...! )

One thing about Blu4k bugs me, it's not including HFR. Hobbit or the Avatar Sequels in 4k/HFR/3D? Not possible. I wish they would allow some dual HDMI-connection setups for that stuff.

 

[Phil Holland]

Pretty nice. I really like all the news about improving colors and HDR. (And we shoot REDRAW here...! )

One thing about Blu4k bugs me, it's not including HFR. Hobbit or the Avatar Sequels in 4k/HFR/3D? Not possible. I wish they would allow some dual HDMI-connection setups for that stuff.

I have worked with some people in the past on this and from what I understand is UHD4KBR can support up to 60fps. Which to me means 48p is in there.

 

[Maik Müller]

I have worked with some people in the past on this and from what I understand is UHD4KBR can support up to 60fps. Which to me means 48p is in there.

Yep, HFR in 4k is possible, but we can't have that in 3D as it would need 120fps (or 96 for Hobbit).

 

[Matt Ryan]

Matt, my p-series sometimes skips frames on the 60p UHD test video on netflix. ( search for 'ultra hd', the two test films are the ones with just the netflix red logo ).
I don't think it's my internet connection.
I agree, the Visio's have a great picture, the active backlight really makes it pop.

Les,
re-routed my cable and used a direct connection finally. On those two test video's I get 2160p at 60fps with no skipped frames. I can shoot a quick video if you like... I guess that means it's either specific to your unit or it's something to do with your internet connection.

 

[Will Keir]

Matt,

Are you able to use the Vizio P as a desktop monitor?

You guys really need to check out the Vizio P series UHDTV's. I have one and am blown away by the quality, color, contrast, sharpness, etc. On black friday the 50" model was selling for $698. Can't beat that. Netflix and other apps built in, 4K netflix looks incredible. Check it out if you have the opportunity. The out of box settings on the tv are pretty nasty, but once it's calibrated it's breathtaking.

 

[Matt Ryan]

Matt,

Are you able to use the Vizio P as a desktop monitor?

You can... The P series also has an HDMI 2.0 port which my macbook pro cannot take advantage of yet. So I'm limited to HDMI 1.4 (what the macbook pro has) and 3840x2160 up to 30hz instead of the 60hz for HDMI 2.0...

 

[Eric Santiago]

You can... The P series also has an HDMI 2.0 port which my macbook pro cannot take advantage of yet. So I'm limited to HDMI 1.4 (what the macbook pro has) and 3840x2160 up to 30hz instead of the 60hz for HDMI 2.0...

Matt do you know anybody close to you with a BMD UltraStudio 4K?

Please test