3D... SONY, SAMSUNG AND PANASONIC ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG...

[Bob Torrance]

RED will define the new spec. Not Sony, Samsung or Panasonic. I don't mean to be hyper-anything, but these guys don't deserve to be in control of your future. The decisions they are making are NOT in the best interests of the consumer.

We'll see what happens.

Jim

Change thread is back?

Bob

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

No glasses would be amazing, but I have yet to see a "no glasses" technology that doesn't suck.

Passive polarization is where it's at right now, but interlaced or checkerboard style polarization masks on HDTV displays sucks too. In some ways just as bad as active glasses. There are electronic switching polarization films/filters that can solve this -- hey, Kirk Melby just posted a link to one.. I honestly can't believe that the big HDTV makers did not jump on the passively-polarized DLP or the switching layer on LCD and plasma displays. Should've gone with passive glasses right from the start. On a DLP or LCOS system with a color wheel, adding polarization is stupid simple (relatively, anyway). It literally becomes another independent wheel component to swap polarizing filtration for alternating frames. ...Oh, wait, Samsung and Mitsubishi own patents on forms of this tech and concept. Nice to see they made good use of it.

Now, if I had to speculate about what RED is up to, I think we're getting an off the cuff and somewhat veiled update on the progress of the "4K LASER Projector" that RED is working on. You see, it makes perfect sense for them to be using LASERS... No spinning color wheels needed, only RGB (or multi-component) LASER sources and they can be used with DMD or LCOS, or even other means by which to build an image. In most situations, LASER light is polarized and the type/ order or direction of polarization can be controlled through states of emission within a LASER device. A rapid phase changing or state switching LASER device can alter polarization as needed without altering any visible (to the human eye) differences in light properties or output levels. No wave plates or switching filters needed in front of a LASER to induce the desired polarization. So no light loss, no interlaced or "checkerboard" polarization masks, no active shutter glasses that make me want to have an epileptic fit...

Of course, I've got my speculation hat pulled on tight... Whether or not I'm anywhere close to what RED is really working on here, I do know that Jim is absolutely right. Those other guys are half-asleep at the wheel and they're driving slowly on the wrong side of the highway.

 

[John Bannister]

Oh Snap!

 

[Mark George]

Jeff, regardless of whether your speculation is correct this time around, I really like your posts. Always informative.

 

[Greg Voevodsky]

Seriously, can you imagine a Superbowl party at either a bar or house where people bring their designer 3D glasses? It was failed to begin with like Jim and Ebert have predicted. It's a great special attraction like IMAX but it's not going to be mainstream until it's no glasses required for the rest of us. Like real life 3D outside of gimmick fun, real 3D is only 0-6ft for our eyes... I do not want to see waves lapping on your carpet... I do NOT mind waves in the distance but breaking the 3rd of 4th wall, its and artificial and sometimes a sideshow fun gimmick... sorry James Cameron, it might be fun in theaters at times with glasses - but it's not practical for the rest of us. Why do I want a soccer ball or football landing in my lap during the Super Bowl? Sounds like a great idea... but maybe not...

 

[Gareth Gerrard]

Haha! They are grasping at straws... We believe you Jim, that's why we are here...

 

[Jason Ader]

Jeff, regardless of whether your speculation is correct this time around, I really like your posts. Always informative.

I like the positive-will not be defeated-tone of his posts. I'm new here, but the confidence they put behind the tech is what comforts me. They know what they are doing, as opposed to what I see from others in the industry who always seem to be playing catch-up with heads spinning.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Jim, I do thoroughly trust you and am in 100% agreement.

Passive polarized stereo projector that can do 4K 48fps or better, with a standardized wide-gamut color space, sounds like the future to me.

Sony, Pana et al probably know it too - but cynically figure they can sell consumers a couple stopgaps along the way to that point? Of course they might kill public perception of 3D in the process...

Funnily enough, in my case, I need the stopgap. I'm actually buying a Sony HW30 active-glasses projector tomorrow - $3200 incl 2 pairs of glasses isn't bad! I was gonna get a more expensive one but figured Red would be coming out with something awesome soonish, so I didn't want to use up all of my pennies...

If you ever want to borrow the HW30 so that you guys can make fun of it versus whatever you have cooking in the Red Lair, just give me a shout

I like Jeff Kilgroe's theory BTW.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Mithun DSouza]

RED will define the new spec. Not Sony, Samsung or Panasonic. I don't mean to be hyper-anything, but these guys don't deserve to be in control of your future. The decisions they are making are NOT in the best interests of the consumer.

We'll see what happens.

Jim

I am ever-so-passionately awaiting to see what RED has in store for us.
Those Oakley Gascan's at NAB sure were nice

I hope REDRay takes your spec to the markets. That way it just becomes easier to show/tell people how its done and done RIGHT!

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

Couldn't agree more Jim, there so many advantages having non-active glasses. Active glasses just keep people away from enjoying s3d.
It's quiet unrealistic if you want to have a larger audience at home or at an certain event to give them active glasses as well.

Off course everybody, not active in our biz is always talking that they rather wait until autostereo is sold massively and can produce nice s3d without disadvantages. I hope this day will come rather sooner then later.
Me myself I just don't see any problem wearing a passive glasses; actually already asked my local friend - Oakley dealer- to order some Oakley passive glasses, but there should be certainty on what systems it could be used right now.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

The future is NOT active glasses. That is preposterous. Simply incredibly stupid.

The "consortium" announced that active glasses are in our future. Not. Samsung, Panasonic and Sony.

Watch here for what the future really looks like.

Trust me on this one. They have lost their minds... really. I'll bet my lifelong reputation on it.

Jim

I ...

I think I love you.

Seriously, I can't tell you how many times I've woken up dreading how the future according to these corporations would look.

Thank goodness for people like you.

I don't know what you have in mind, although I like Jeff Kilgroe's laser projector conjecture, in any case I'm excited to see and hear it. I'm behind you 1000%

If you decide you can use some help dragging this oxcart wherever it needs to get to ... well this one is important to me.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

Okay RED then let's hear it for the boys!
LG is about to deliver their 4K2K displays - this year!? And working with passive glasses for 3D.
best to drop the glasses altogether, but we'll see how that 3D tech war will end up.

I'm more than excited to see what you have in stock - or mind or was it the other way round?

 

[Jordi Figueras]

I'm totally losing my friends!

Another day I'm gonna tell them "The Red guys said..."

 

[Axel Mertes]

The future is NOT active glasses. That is preposterous. Simply incredibly stupid.

The "consortium" announced that active glasses are in our future. Not. Samsung, Panasonic and Sony.

Watch here for what the future really looks like.

Trust me on this one. They have lost their minds... really. I'll bet my lifelong reputation on it.

Jim

As of now I would choose (and choose already) polarized over active glasses. The lesser resolution is a drawback as of now, but when fed with over/under signals (not the stupid side-by-side BluRay nonsense) you'll get at least full resolution of what is being fed to the display. Using full screen polarisation using lasers or dual projection solves this easily. The glasses are way more comfortable, no flickering that creates me headaches, no empty batteries. You can even buy stylish ones and surely at some point with optical glass for eyeglass wearers.

We have a decent 47" LG 3D ELD with polarized screen here, and for what is available now, its definetly one of the most affordable and at the same time most useable solutions. Its shocking for theaters to see 3D at home being so far already. It all lacks content, thats the only "pitty". For content creators this is fantastic, as they can currently sell about anything to 3D channels popping up around the world.

Slightly off topic:
I am scared that the poeple from DCP distribution & display systems are scared how to handle 2K 48fps per eye stereo - while shooting actually happens in 5K stereo already. They are at least 4 times behind of the requirements that are being produced NOW, and they currently think of how to solve 2K stereo 48fps per eye by dec 2012 for the releases of Avatar 2&3, The Hobbit etc. and at which data rates. We'll see how that turns out.

Cheers,
Axel

 

[Gary Paul Walker]

At the risk of going against the grain. I don't like 3D, never have, never will. To me it isn't like comparing stereo to surround sound, its more like comparing 4k excellence to 2 hours worth of a headache.

I seriously hope that 3D never becomes the 'standard'. Those that want it, can work with it and can view it without having to lie down in a dark room to recover - I salute you. I'll stick to 2d stories, thanks

(saying that, I still agree that I wouldnt trust Sony et al to have consumers and the progressive health of the market at heart)

 

[Michel Hafner]

Well, whatever RED will be proposing, as long as it gets rid of the brightness issue, has zero visible ghosting/crosstalk, colors are as accurate as with 2D and it works for hours without giving me a headache I'm all for it, whether it's with or without glasses (preferably the latter).

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Only 2D cinema with a human positive and artistically creative fresh ideas is the future and no any other.

Also probably I'm not only one with that opinion.

In general I can see that something like a war between 2D and 3D cinema is what going on at the moment.

Watching newer 3D movies is so often become similar to get a needle pain in your eyes with a headache.

Shot yesterday on GH2 with Lumix G 1:12/12.5 0.6/1.97ft 3D lens at my cactus garden on a pool in Ibiza.

 

[geoffboyle]

The decisions they are making are NOT in the best interests of the consumer.


Jim

Well of course not!

They have a bunch of 120Hz+ 2D TV's that for a couple of dollars they can turn into active spec 3D sets and charge an extra $100 plus for.

Passive sets mean that they have to spend on a Pola laminate.

Of course they love active!

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

RED will define the new spec. Not Sony, Samsung or Panasonic. I don't mean to be hyper-anything, but these guys don't deserve to be in control of your future. The decisions they are making are NOT in the best interests of the consumer.

We'll see what happens.

Jim

"As we look ahead into the next century, leaders will be those who empower others." -Bill Gates

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Thanks for saying what I have been thinking. Glad to know, you don't need their money.

But if SONY, SAMSUNG AND LG want to fund WavesDVD.com relaxing videos in 3D with shades - I'm open for FREE new gear...

But Jim, as an early supporter but not a buyer #217 (no sound active) I'd like to buy a Scarlet to shoot in 3k for 2D for blu-ray.

I'd love to follow up the best selling #1 "Hawaii Beaches" Blu-Ray and 5 star on Amazon (shot on an Sony EX-1) with a "HD Caribbean Beaches 2" shot on a Scarlet instead.
Please make my dreams come true this time. I can't wait for Scarlet and or Canon 5D mark 3.... who will be the first to market? Only time will tell.... I will probably buy both.

Greg Voevodsky
Waves DVD Producer / Youtube Partner
WavesDVD.com #1 Relaxing Ocean Waves, Fireplace, Aquarium Videos

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Hey Greg, just watched your Youtube channel and I love your work.

Now back to the 3D...