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35mm DOF Adapter on Scarlet - (35mm FOV 2k in R3D)

Ben Roper

Ben Roper

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This doesn't seem to have 'cropped' up yet...

Lots of people are talking about wanting to shoot 2k/1080p footage on the Scarlet, most are thinking of using an Atmos Ninja/whatever but then you loose the RAW advantage, so what about using a Letus adapter?

Positives:
* You still shoot R3D
* You still get the full 35mm field of view from your lenses

Potential Negatives:
* The rig becomes bigger
* Letus adapters often suffer from vignette
* Potential for image quality loss?
* You need the right lens on the brain-side of the adapter
* If you don't already own an adpater you need to buy one!

Any other thoughts on this?
 
This is stupid. And I mean that in the nicest possible way... If you're not going to shoot 4K RAW 90% of the time, then why buy this camera? Seriously?

What lens are you going to put on the camera to which you will attach the 35mm adapter? The light loss and loss of resolution are going to be significant. For an "HD" version of the Letus or similar, you will spend as much or more than buying a couple 256GB cards.
 
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I guess this would work, but would depend on what second lens you were using, eg the lens that was attached to the brain. But seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
 
I HATE 35mm adaptors for the reasons Jeff describes and more, so with Canon and PL mounts available for Scarlet, as well as other PL/35 converters, I'm not sure why anyone would use a ground glass adapter on Scarlet.

I'm curious about the Pro Res recorders though. For me the primary use would be as a dual system to avoid transcoding and get us into FCP without proxies, and some clients are content with that and nothing else. Having this kind of solution makes it quicker and easier for me to serve them without bringing in another camera. My work product and I would be happier if I could convince the client to utilize the R3ds, but I won't let that be THE factor that limits my work potential. I prefer to make those descisions for myself.
 
I uesd a 35mm adaptor on an HVX200 once. I never did it again. Such a pain. The only reason one is really used on an HD camera is to try and achieve a shallow dof anyways. You're better off shooting a decent wider lens at 2k. Those 35mm adaptors also have a ground glass in them that vibrates to simulate film grain... I'm pretty sure that alone would just ruin your shot.
 
Ryan Fitzgerald said:
I uesd a 35mm adaptor on an HVX200 once. I never did it again. Such a pain. The only reason one is really used on an HD camera is to try and achieve a shallow dof anyways. You're better off shooting a decent wider lens at 2k. Those 35mm adaptors also have a ground glass in them that vibrates to simulate film grain... I'm pretty sure that alone would just ruin your shot.
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I've been asked to shoot them a few times and have used some of the P+S and Letus models. Shooting 35mm glass for us was about more than just DOF. Our end results have been decent but the hassle:benefit:risk is questionable. It slowed us down and caused us to lose material. It's the kind of experience I am loathe to repeat, but in the absence of alternatives I did without hesitation. With Scarlet in hand, I won't be having the discussion again.
 
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How is that going to help you shoot "2k/1080p”? I’m with Jeff on this. Even if you think you’ll buy this camera and shoot it in 2k 1k all the time you just wont. There are a million benefits to 4k and it’s really not anywhere near as hard as you might think to work with. This seems like you would degrade the quality of the recording pretty well.

Besides, you’re going to shoot 4k and make that into 1080p I’m sure anyway. Don’t loose the awesome oversampled image.
 
Sure, there are certain things this would provide, but I don't see how they would ever beat out simply shooting 4k. Smaller file size, and higher FPS isn't nearly enough to forgo the huge IQ drop (yes, huge IQ drop even at 1080p finish) or the many and major cumbersome aspects of shooting with an adapter... 4k workflow isn't a mythological creature, we are "there" already, have been for a while now, so the file size deal isn't much of a point to consider at all. The light loss alone would be enough for most to strike this idea and you also have to consider the cost... No need to think about this. Adapters were a hard sell even when Scarlet was supposed to be 2/3", now they really aren't even an idea. The only reason I would ever do this is if somehow your whole film depended on having S35 DoF at higher FPS and you couldn't use an EPIC, which is well beyond extremely unlikely. Adapters were only justifiable when using 1/3" sensors, which really kept everything in focus 95% of the time. They are an endangered species now. 0.02
 
Ryan Nichols said:
How is that going to help you shoot "2k/1080p”?
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I didn't say that it would... It wasn't part of my response... Didn't give that any thought in the context of this discussion. Sorry

Jeff Kilgroe said:
This is stupid. And I mean that in the nicest possible way... If you're not going to shoot 4K RAW 90% of the time, then why buy this camera? Seriously?
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With this I agree, of course. I choose Scarlet for personal reasons... For my passion projects. For those things I plan to shoot 4k almost exclusively. Commercial clients and 2k/1080P is another subject for me entirely, and in the case of my Scarlet those are secondary considerations.
 
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Whoa ok, pretty heavy response to this! Don't worry everyone, I'm not going to come round and force you to use this technique!

The biggest thing I'm getting at is the field of view. I know that (if you don't already have one) the adpater is expensive, but as expensive as a lens that will give you the same range as any 35mm lens you care to whack on it at 2k? I think not!

Obviously in an ideal world everyone would be shooting 4k all of the time but there may well be a time when I want to get full field of view out of my lenses at less than 4k resolution. It's a money/compromise thing, I think.
 
Ben Roper said:
Whoa ok, pretty heavy response to this! Don't worry everyone, I'm not going to come round and force you to use this technique!

The biggest thing I'm getting at is the field of view. I know that (if you don't already have one) the adpater is expensive, but as expensive as a lens that will give you the same range as any 35mm lens you care to whack on it at 2k? I think not!

Obviously in an ideal world everyone would be shooting 4k all of the time but there may well be a time when I want to get full field of view out of my lenses at less than 4k resolution. It's a money/compromise thing, I think.
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OK, I'm at home recovering from surgery, so maybe it's the pain pills they have me on that make me not understand the brilliance of your idea, so let me see if I have this correctly???

You want to shoot in 2K with what, a16mm format lens or a 35mm format lens, then attach a DOF adapter, and then attach a 35mm format lens so you can get the same field of view of the lens as if you just shot in 4K?

Maybe it's the drugs, but the sounds just a little daft.
 
Julio Quintana said:
If all you want is 35mm FOV and low data rates, you should look into a Sony F3 or Panasonic AF100.
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Well obviously that is not all I want, as I have explained, otherwise I would not be buying a Scarlet. And 'low data rates' is not really accurate either - the 2nd main advantage being shooting RAW.

There seems to be an endless stream of misunderstanding surrounding 'shooting anything other than 4k'. Firstly if I'm investing in a camera as useful as a Scarlet (R3D flexibility for a start!) I'm not about to rush off and shoot on a 5D again if I can help it. I would clearly like to take advantage of everything the Scarlet has to offer, but it doesn't always make sense to shoot 4k - obviously it depends on your work.

Surely the point is that with a Scarlet I 'can' do jobs that I simply would not have been able to pitch for previously? That doesn't stop me wanting to use it for the lower-spec jobs I would have been doing anyway, and reap the rewards.
 
You want to shoot in 2K with what, a16mm format lens or a 35mm format lens, then attach a DOF adapter, and then attach a 35mm format lens so you can get the same field of view of the lens as if you just shot in 4K?
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Yes - the idea is to get the same FOV as 4k (or even 5k). Don't you agree that shooting at 2k is a little limiting when you consider the FOV all your lenses would have?
 
What lens are you going to put on the camera to which you will attach the 35mm adapter? The light loss and loss of resolution are going to be significant. For an "HD" version of the Letus or similar, you will spend as much or more than buying a couple 256GB cards.
Click to expand...

Light loss is half a stop, resolution might be an issue but it depends on the job. With regards to money, due to DSLRs taking off these things are pretty cheap at the moment (think sub £1000).

This is stupid. And I mean that in the nicest possible way... If you're not going to shoot 4K RAW 90% of the time, then why buy this camera? Seriously?
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Because I will have the ability to offer 4k to clients/pitch for better jobs. But in the mean time if I have access to RAW I want to use it. Especially considering the investment.
 
Those 35mm adaptors also have a ground glass in them that vibrates to simulate film grain... I'm pretty sure that alone would just ruin your shot.
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Actually it vibrates to remove the grain in the glass. The cheaper ones have a limit of 120th shutter, the more expensive ones spin instead and have 'no limit', within reason.
 
Maybe I don't get it, or you don't get it Ben, but Scarlet has already the FOV of a S35mm camera. Not of a 5D, but to why should you put a S35 adapter on a s35 camera ? That is a loss of quality for more money ? Please explain ?
 
How is that going to help you shoot "2k/1080p”? I’m with Jeff on this. Even if you think you’ll buy this camera and shoot it in 2k 1k all the time you just wont. There are a million benefits to 4k and it’s really not anywhere near as hard as you might think to work with. This seems like you would degrade the quality of the recording pretty well.

Besides, you’re going to shoot 4k and make that into 1080p I’m sure anyway. Don’t loose the awesome oversampled image.
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This is a very good point. Looking forward to getting used to it!
 
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