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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

250 ISO Looks great.

I'm new to red and am struggling to get clean files at 250ISO. my goal posts are empty and my stop lights are empty. my histogram is safe and sound in redlogfilm. is this an acceptable amount of noise from the sensor?any assistance would is appreciated! (attached is a screen cap of the file for reference). r3d file is at the link below.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tm7lzgfgqlubmt0/AAB7AugI981HqeYWb35F68ECa
 

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joey richey said:
I'm new to red and am struggling to get clean files at 250ISO. my goal posts are empty and my stop lights are empty. my histogram is safe and sound in redlogfilm.

is this an acceptable amount of noise from the sensor?

any assistance would is appreciated!

(attached is a screen cap of the file for reference).
Click to expand...

You need to post an r3d file for evaluation.
 
joey richey said:
I'm new to red and am struggling to get clean files at 250ISO. my goal posts are empty and my stop lights are empty. my histogram is safe and sound in redlogfilm. is this an acceptable amount of noise from the sensor?any assistance would is appreciated! (attached is a screen cap of the file for reference). r3d file is at the link below.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tm7lzgfgqlubmt0/AAB7AugI981HqeYWb35F68ECa
Click to expand...

It looks good Joey. I boosted the shot to 800ISO just to see what was there and this is how it looks (I don't notice much noise). This doesn't have a grade by the way, Dragoncolor/RedlogFilm with a slight curve:
800ISORedlogfilm.jpg
 
What Matt said.

If you are thinking there is too much texture in the chairs when zoomed in at 200% then that is normal. Always switch to full as well. You can move the noise slider, but this is a well exposed shot with lots of room for grading and nice tones. I'm surprised at how much the dragon sees both inside and how it holds the outside exposure so well. How was it compared to your eye?

Go on Matt, slap a grade on there. Cover of architectural digest look. :)

Battistella
 
From my testing between my Dragon and former Red One MX the shadow noise was about the same throughout the entire range, but I much preferred Dragons noise...even with the red dots. So I can only imagine DEB will put it over the top for me ;)

Dragon dynamic range in the highlights, color science, and improvements in IR pollution is soooo worth the upgrade.

The only major negative for me is the magenta pixel smear when shooting in a high contrast environment. I wish there was a better way to manage its effect somehow...but overall I'm pretty damn pleased. IMO, Dragon is an Alexa that shoots 6K RAW (or 5K RAW for us Scarlet Dragon owners) for WAY less money. Gotta love it ;)
 
If 250 is the new sensor sweet spot.

On MX @ night I drop the ISO to 320 (as opposed to 800 ) then light from there, helping protect the blacks from noise.

So a question.

With the new sensor, are we treating it more like film and dialing up the ISO to give more light sensitivity ?

If so at what point does noise start creeping into the blacks 1600, 2000 ISO ? ( BTW this is not meant to be another post about dragon noise )
 
Matt Ryan said:
It looks good Joey. I boosted the shot to 800ISO just to see what was there and this is how it looks (I don't notice much noise). This doesn't have a grade by the way, Dragoncolor/RedlogFilm with a slight curve:
800ISORedlogfilm.jpg
Click to expand...


I think this image and Joey's reaction to it are a very good illustration of how "clean" is more of a range that's open to interpretation, depending on what you're used to and/or prefer, and therefore shouldn't be used as definitively as some tend to do.

With him being new to RED, he may also be new to cameras with no onboard noise reduction. It can come as quite a shock to some.

When you think about it, digital cameras without built-in noise reduction are a relatively recent occurrence. Most still do it.

This is a good-looking image and what little texture there is helps take the digital edge off and kinda gives the image a physicality that's more appealing to me.
 
@mike

Rather than at a particular ISO it's more related to underexposure. If you rate and expose at 2000 and light it it's not going to be bad at all. It's when you under expose by 2.5 to 3 stops and the try to recover that. There's a chart shot in my other thread.

If you look at it, I rated and exposed it at 2000ISO, they was barely any measurable light on the scene as you can see on the meter. When it came time to process it, I felt It'd looked better at 1000iso, so I actually pull processed that shot to get it looking right (and a bit cleaner)

The sensor is more sensitive than people think and cleaner. This is all with the HIGHLIGHT OLPF (aka V2 or new).

battistella
 
thanks guys!

i believe brian is making the correct assumption. i come from the leica M system, where luminance noise is nearly nonexistent when exposed correctly at ISO 200. my reaction is mainly to the sparkly gain-like noise structure that exists in the top and bottom 15% of the exposure. I'm accustomed to doing any pre-pro sharpening, noise reduction or output sharpening at 1/1 image size, so my judgement is based on that image scale.

i purposely used this test as my first test with the dragon sensor, understanding the challenge of exposing for outdoor light backlighting light colored objects in shadow, to make sure i learned how the sensor likes to digest light.

thanks to everyone for taking a look at this.

(i think some of the smooth falloff you're seeing is from the lens. this is a leica noctilux 0.95, so it does well with seeing "real life" verus seeing "digital life")
 
Joey,

thanks for sharing you methodology, logic, exposure technique and a bit about your background. It's helps us all understand where you are coming from.

When doing any fine adjusting we have to work at 1:1. I live at 1:1 in DXO optics, when it's for motion I try to look at the whole frame but of course we always do both. :)

Gorgeous lens. I'm a big fan of anything Leica.

battistella
 
david, of course.

this is my first time with moving imagery so i wasn't sure what to expect!

i appreciate everyones feedback and guidance... thank you all!
 
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