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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

24 FPS

T

Tom Lewis

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I'm trying to record 24 FPS on a RED Epic X (@5K FF, 5:1) the display is only allowing 23.98 FPS. RED Operation Guide says 24 FPS is default. Can someone help explain this? Maybe explain how to select 24FPS manually? Thanks
 
They used to show 24FPS in the menu but a firmware update a few updates ago changed the display to the actual frame rate recorded which is 23.98fps. Recording 23.98fps is the standard.
 
Thanks for the reply. That's good to understand that now
 
23.98 is more of a North American standard, it is also a video standard and not a film standard (film does not run at 23.98fps it runs at 24), 23.98 corresponds with the electrical frequency of North America and 50fps corresponds with Europe. Film projection was not dependent on pal or NTSC standards and runs at 24.

true 24fps is available on the epic as is 25fps and 29.97/59.94

These are set in the camera TIMEBASE settings.

its kind of a blanket statement to state that 23.98 is the standard. It is one standard. If you shot 23.98. In Europe you might have some lighting issues, especially with practicals, for example.

David
 
Tom Lewis said:
I'm trying to record 24 FPS on a RED Epic X (@5K FF, 5:1) the display is only allowing 23.98 FPS. RED Operation Guide says 24 FPS is default. Can someone help explain this? Maybe explain how to select 24FPS manually? Thanks
Click to expand...

If you hold your finger on the Touchscreen selection, you get a dialog box you can manually select an exact framerate rather than a preset one. I can't remember offhand - but you may also have to set your timebase to 24fps to allow exact 24fps rather than 23.98 as a Record framerate.

Bear in mind that 23.98fps is the more failsafe option in the NTSC market. Exact 24fps is more for theatrical film pipelines.
 
Like David says again plus remember if you're recording the brain hdsdi feed out, to say a samurai recorder, remember to change the hdsdi settings too. That often catches me out :

3 settings:
1. Frame rate
2. Project time base
3. Brain Hsdi output.

Not sure why 2 & 3 aren't locked together but this has often got me when jumping between 25 & 24 which I often do when working with UK HD & digital cinema and recording proxy video for the offline. You can tell if you've not got it right as camera pans and general motion will have a jerk each & every second.

Craig Lees
UK
Scarlet X
www.3dstories.co.uk
 
Can someone pls clarify the drop frame aspect and how it is related to audio recording? Thanks
 
Wouldn't it make more sense to settle for 29.97/30 as computers and all sorts of digital panels which are tuned to 60hz are being used more for viewing..?
 
Kirk.Attard said:
Can someone pls clarify the drop frame aspect and how it is related to audio recording? Thanks
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as drop frame in the 24/23.98 world. Drop frame time code only exists with respect to 59.94 material.
 
Mark Toia said:
I wish the world would all go 25ps, then in Multiples of that.... Actually most of the world does, expect for America. ..mmmm... Come on America. Join in. :)
Keep it simple. :)
Click to expand...

The world is not going to go to 25fps. And none of this is "complicated." The equipment handles it all.

I would also remind that the only reason for the existence of 50i video is the line frequency of 220V AC current in the countries that have it, which is essentially the same reason for the existence of 60i video in the countries that have 110V AC current at that frequency. The standard for film production worldwide has been 24 fps for many years, and it was only bumped to 25fps for television production in 50i countries to make it easier to technically accomplish (since there's no simple pulldown pattern to go from 24 to 50, as there is for 24 to 60).
 
Thanks mr most. If planning for cine release i should stick to 24fps then. Should make things easier even with audio and vfx.
 
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Are Luke Muggerud said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to settle for 29.97/30 as computers and all sorts of digital panels which are tuned to 60hz are being used more for viewing..?
Click to expand...

I'm not a huge fan of the motion blur you get at 29.97...I always thinkg 24fps just looks better...but that's just me...
 
Mark Toia said:
I wish the world would all go 25ps, then in Multiples of that.... Actually most of the world does, expect for America. ..mmmm... Come on America. Join in. :)
Keep it simple. :)
Click to expand...

That would mean changing the whole electric standard for a whole continent so it's not so simple fort the land of feet, yards and gallons. I made the mistake to convince US film crew to shoot 25fps in the states more than once... "flicker"and "lights" are the reasons why you should not try it... :)

But I agree where ever it's possible 25p is the way to go. Right amount of motion blur and framerate and also it makes things easy to count for shutter speeds, retimings etc.
 
Björn Benckert said:
But I agree where ever it's possible 25p is the way to go. Right amount of motion blur and framerate and also it makes things easy to count for shutter speeds, retimings etc.
Click to expand...

Easier to count?? I don't see how. It's just what you get used to that seems easier.

6, 12, 24, 48, 96 vs. 6.25, 12.5, 25, 50, 100
 
D Fuller said:
Easier to count?? I don't see how. It's just what you get used to that seems easier.

6, 12, 24, 48, 96 vs. 6.25, 12.5, 25, 50, 100
Click to expand...

Well you forget to mention that you don't have 24p... but the NTSC problem of 23.97...

You should call it : 23.97, 11.985, 5,9925... ;-)

BUT I've never seen a project rate of 12.5 nor 6.25 fps????

I only shoot 25p for CINEMA and TV screens => ONE master, no sound pitch/distortion post-processing for TV master, no additional cost for producers and 25p is a SMPTE DCP standard. It's time to scew 23,97 wich is an engeneering error from the beginning of video age! I shoot 25p because there is no ways of sending a video signal by air in 24p (real 24p) so why bother with a US standard here in Europe?

25p ALL THE WAY!

Pat
 
Kirk.Attard said:
Thanks mr most. If planning for cine release i should stick to 24fps then. Should make things easier even with audio and vfx.
Click to expand...
No, film is dead, film projectors are dead. Cinemas use digital projectors, use 23.98 (for economy, for now).
 
George Butterfield said:
No, film is dead, film projectors are dead. Cinemas use digital projectors, use 23.98 (for economy, for now).
Click to expand...

The most common standard for DCP's is not 23.98, it is 24fps. Post production in the US is usually done at 23.98, but when the DCP is created, the material is "pulled up" to 24fps, both picture and sound. Until the last year or so, with the additions to the SMPTE standard, there was no 23.98 DCP, and even today, most DCPs are not made to the SMPTE standard.
 
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