2000 ISO STH = Dragon Gold

[Patrick O'Sullivan]

I am finishing off some testing for a commercial shooting anamorphic night exteriors across Asia and I have to say,
Dragon STH @ 2000 ISO is beautiful.

I have gone through a variety of different shooting set ups with Dragon but after talking to guys like Chayse Irvin & Max Goldman (who always shoots Alexa RAW @ 1600 ISO no matter what) I started exploring high ISO capture with the STH OLPF.

I know people go crazy with the whole noise thing but I don't see the issue. Just watched the tests projected (2k) and with the proper blackshade, proper light levels for ISO 2000, and a bit of a grade the results are awesome.

Scaling it down to HD for broadcast, adding a smidge of Neat Video, and there is no way you can tell ISO 400 from 2000. We shot a lot of stuff under lots of different lights and no one in the room could tell from a noise standpoint after NR. The dragon noise seems incredibly easy for Neat Video to latch on to with the right calibration.
Yes it is an extra step. (Edit R3Ds, Export XML for R3Ds, Grade R3Ds in Resolve, Don't Export, Export individual R3Ds with Final RAW settings in After Effects after running Neat Video as 6:5 10 bit DPXs, Bring DPX sequences into resolve, copy and paste grades, export Prores for broadcast.)
But.... and this is a big but
the way the DR is mapped at 2000 has us shooting the entire spot (including day exteriors) @ ISO 2000 STH. Those extra stops in the highs just oozes roll off.

I read the posts on people knocking high ISO on the STH all the time. To each their own I guess.

My experience has been that Higher ISOs up to 2000 give me the best looking overall images at the end of the pipe. Halfway through the pipe they may not look like a million bucks but once the entire process is complete I can't fault it. On set they are definitely not crystal clear but if you have done the testing and know what you can get it is a very powerful setting.

 

[Phil Holland]

Yep. It comes down to texture and the individual or client. I've discussed Dragon with so many since 2013 in person, abroad, via the web, and on the horn. I've found that there's really no one answer for everybody regarding texture.


You get such a smooth highlight roll-off at higher ISOs and it looks damn good. You can also call that highlight retention for a given exposure compared to a lower ISO exposed identically as it will hold more "meat" before clip if all things are equal.

For me Dragon with the Skin Tone Highlight OLPF in the ISO 800-1280 range is my jam for narrative with some textural feel.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Patrick have you tested the Lowlight OLPF at similar settings? Curious how it compares...

 

[David Battistella]

Thanks for sharing!

I just switched back to the STH after a bunch of stuff on LLO. I just find the STH so much more like film and I prefer that.

That said, I have the slightly cleaner option of the LLO but the image, to me, isn't as "alive". LLO is a tad more "sterile"

your point about the whole pipeline is excellent, more time needs to be spent judging images after they've been through th pipeline and less time on a 5" or 7" display..

battistella

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Yes it is an extra step. (Edit R3Ds, Export XML for R3Ds, Grade R3Ds in Resolve, Don't Export, Export individual R3Ds with Final RAW settings in After Effects after running Neat Video as 6:5 10 bit DPXs, Bring DPX sequences into resolve, copy and paste grades, export Prores for broadcast.

Hello,

You could also apply Neat video denoise in Resolve skipping the big extra step and data hassle.
Pat

 

[Patrick O'Sullivan]

Yea for sure.

Only question that has stopped me from doing that is when I am in a 1920 HD timeline heading out for broadcast is neat video sampling from 1920 x 818 or is it still sampling from the 6:5 R3D whatever K it is?

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I bet the downscale is done after denoise.

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

STH high iso looks too digital.Especially with DEB On it gets green cast.

 

[Sean Cruser]

have to agree with you Patrick! i haven't tried much beyond DEB thou, but the STH olpf at higer iso's is something i quite love.

ps: love your podcast!

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

STH high iso looks too digital.Especially with DEB On it gets green cast.

To each their own. I thought it looks more filmic with DEB enabled, though I'm referring to anything but ultra low light. Much more pleasing than apparent chroma noise.

 

[David Grauberger]

Hey Patrick, I know this is an old thread. I'm kinda super intrigued that you prefer the 2000iso and STH combo. I've been playing around with that combo but haven't landed on a recipe that works. Do you have any samples? I do more doc style work at times and cant always bring a grip truck to the party. But I love the dragon look and feel. I'd love to figure out how to push the sensor that hard with pleasing results.

 

[Stewart Read]

I would like to know more about this too! For example if it's all about the roll off is there any benefit shooting 2000 if nothing is rolling off into over exposure? (no traffic lights).