13th responses here...

[zergtherobot]

You guys should know better by now. Red One came out better than what it was announced and has been developed only for the better, right? :matrix:

OF course they will make it all better then the released specs.

Then Jim can come in, bust out with a " guess what, what you thought you knew, you didn't " Get everyone all wet and the pants again and let the viral marketing buzz do his dirty work.

Jim is a smart man, very smart man. What he has done with Red...Amazing
Don't get me wrong all of this is spectacular. But, will I be a RED customer anytime soon? Not unless something drastic changes.

 

[Shawn R]

why on gods earth am i seeing a bunch of posters with 1,2 5, 10 post count speaking their mind about how us current RED 1 owners are upset?

I wonder that too. Just reading must be highly underrated.

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

Well... The document regarding the new cams also state that the One can shoot 30fps max... Well... we all know that`s wrong so I guess we`ll just have to wait for further instructions regarding the fps on the new guys

 

[multifocus]

I'll use 5K for green screen work and visual effects where I want to zoom in or shake the screen around etc. but I would surely use overcranking a lot at even SD resolution. For me it's essential to have a camera that can create some sort of timelapse or slowmo otherwise I feel so restricted. And I do use Twixtor already but that's not ideal.

 

[tfg]

I know for 100 percent certainity based on all the shit talking Jim was doing about about the 5d that you will be able to shoot some different frame rates that are 30fps or less. It is going to have 24, 25 etc. It may only have 24, 25, 30 and if this is all locked at 5k...instant deal breaker they have also just left the door wide open for Canon to come in and slap down some big guns.

Yes, you'll be able to do 24, 25, 30, and possibly a few in-betweens. But ... as far as I see it, you're still better off getting the 2/3" Scarlet and buying a 35mm lens adapter.

 

[Häakon]

Okay. So let me understand this. If I have a set of 35MM Zeiss PL lenses, then I can't ever use them with a Monstro sensor? Yikes.

Yes, you can. I'm surprised nobody has noticed yet, but red has updated the Epic/Scarlet page to show that the FF35 option CAN be used with a PL-mount (they are listening). This obviously means you aren't going to get your full 6K worth with that sensor, but for those of you who can't live without using your old PL lenses there is a solution. Sleep easy tonight.

 

[Häakon]

Dang this is annoying... Max 30fps, means MAX.

Jim has already stated that there will be other cropping/higher-fps options for scarlet, just not as many as the RED ONE can offer and probably not as fast. "Max fps" to me means the maximum fps one can get from the camera at full resolution. The RED ONE, for instance, is listed on that same chart as "max 30 fps," and yet we all know it is capable of 120fps when lowered to 2K mode. If they had indicated a higher number, however, people would assume that you can get that "max fps" throughout the range of resolutions and they'd have to backtrack and upset people with clarifications. They've clearly learned a lot from their RED ONE rollout.

 

[FMG battery]

hey man.. where have you been?.. we claim for more posts of your work

 

[Jarred Land]

Yes, you can. I'm surprised nobody has noticed yet, but red has updated the Epic/Scarlet page to show that the FF35 option CAN be used with a PL-mount (they are listening). This obviously means you aren't going to get your full 6K worth with that sensor, but for those of you who can't live without using your old PL lenses there is a solution. Sleep easy tonight.

Keep your eye out on that page.. look at the date on the front page, we are constantly updating it.

 

[Andrew Hewlett]

Jim has already stated that there will be other cropping/higher-fps options for scarlet, just not as many as the RED ONE can offer and probably not as fast. "Max fps" to me means the maximum fps one can get from the camera at full resolution. The RED ONE, for instance, is listed on that same chart as "max 30 fps," and yet we all know it is capable of 120fps when lowered to 2K mode. If they had indicated a higher number, however, people would assume that you can get that "max fps" throughout the range of resolutions and they'd have to backtrack and upset people with clarifications. They've clearly learned a lot from their RED ONE rollout.

As far as I understood, the Scarlet brain will not have the compression or electronics boards that would make it able to process over the 30fps at any frame size. Jim (reduser.net) and Ted (red centre/fxguide) have both made statements along those lines. I haven't seen/heard that Scarlet would be able to do higher frame rates, ramping or cropping from anyone at Red. Could you direct me to that statement so I could have some piece of mind?

 

[MikeCurtis]

"Max fps" to me means the maximum fps one can get from the camera at full resolution.

That is correct - asked and answered by Ted at the press event yesterday. BTW - I posted all my notes over here:

http://provideocoalition.com/index....gital_stills_and_motion_cameras_8_new_models/

and new Avid/Apple/Adobe workflow stuff posted here:

http://provideocoalition.com/index....ions_for_red_announced_from_apple_adobe_avid/

It'll be interesting to see how you finish (I'm not worried about offlining) 16 bit, 28K frames - that's a massive frame! For final renders....the math boggles...

-mike

 

[Ethan Cooper]

It'll be interesting to see how you finish (I'm not worried about offlining) 16 bit, 28K frames - that's a massive frame! For final renders....the math boggles...

By the time that camera ships you'll be able to do it on a laptop, so no worries there.

My main question with the 28K Monster is if they'll have a module that subdues the maniacal laughter coming from the camera op as he unleashes the fury of 261Mp at 25fps. And how will they keep the lights from dimming every time you hit record?
________
VOLCANO VAPORIZER REVIEWS

 

[Häakon]

hey man.. where have you been?.. we claim for more posts of your work

Out making a living with my RED ONE. I'll post some new footage soon!

Which brings me to another point, posts like this:

I'm so sick of hearing shit like this from newbs! You should of put your money where your mouth is 2 years ago and see how you would of accepted the news. Until then go back to the scarlet forum.

do NOT speak for all of us. As one of the earliest RED ONE owners, I'm happy as a clam over the new announcements. Scarlet, to me, does look like it can be configured better than my current RED ONE setup and at a much lower cost there is no reason to not be excited. Technology improves over time. It will be near two years that RED ONE has been out when the first of these cameras start to ship. Are you saying that you didn't expect the cameras to get meaner, sleeker, faster, and shoot higher res in that time? The RED ONE was the company's first offering; of course the next model is going to be sexier and more fine-tuned. If it wasn't, I would be seriously disappointed. These new choices are so exciting and offer the world to people in any price bracket, with the unprecedented option of being able to "climb the ladder" from the lowest product all the way to the highest by simply switching out the brain. Amazing. Now I understand how Jim can get so frustrated around here... you offer the world and people still find something to complain about!

Look, the bottom line is that the RED ONE continues to be the best digital cinema camera on the market, period. Just because a 6K Scarlet is coming doesn't mean your 4K RED ONE has no value. The Sonys and Panasonics of the world haven't even put out a competitive product to RED's first camera offering yet, letalone the new stuff coming down the pipes. For crying out loud, Panasonic just made a new 720p/1080 Varicam and is charging $40,000 for it! 720p! For $40,000, RED is offering a FULL FRAME behemoth that can shoot up to 100fps! As a R1 owner, I can slash almost $20K from that price, or pick up a scarlet and get an amazing new sensor. I could just upgrade the sensor in the body I already have and call it a night, or I can just rest easy on the knowledge that my camera is still making me money and will continue to do so for years to come, because 4K in itself is groundbreaking and no other camera makes images like this!

Seriously, please, if you're a RED ONE owner and have concerns, think twice about what you've been offered. There is no reason for any of us to be complaining about these new cameras which continue RED's commitment to pushing the digital cinema envelope.

 

[Andrew Hewlett]

Seriously, please, if you're a RED ONE owner and have concerns, think twice about what you've been offered. There is no reason for any of us to be complaining about these new cameras which continue RED's commitment to pushing the digital cinema envelope.

Here here, I thought about ditching my plans on getting an R1 for a Scarlet, but now I"m thinking of going ahead with both. R1 is still an amazing camera and available now.

 

[Corey Culp]

It'll be interesting to see how you finish (I'm not worried about offlining) 16 bit, 28K frames - that's a massive frame! For final renders....the math boggles...

-mike

With that 28k projector they're announcing at NAB, of course.

What I got a kick out of was the length of the Epic/Scarlet brochure is 18k. Flip that 90 degrees in Photoshop then realize: I'm only looking at 2/3 of what the 617 can do. (on the wide.)

My main question with the 28K Monster is if they'll have a module that subdues the maniacal laughter coming from the camera op as he unleashes the fury of 261Mp at 25fps. And how will they keep the lights from dimming every time you hit record?

That would explain the need for the Vegas facility. All of that extra power.

Though, it'll probably dim the lights on The Strip...

 

[Adam Levins]

Is there any news on when the 1st Scarlet will be able to be ordered? and what is the procedure?

 

[Tom Lowe]

That is correct - asked and answered by Ted at the press event yesterday. BTW - I posted all my notes over here:

http://provideocoalition.com/index....gital_stills_and_motion_cameras_8_new_models/

-mike

Thanks, useful info there.

The main thing that jumps out at me about all of this is that Scarlet S35mm and FF35mm really seem like great options, but the lack of overcranking is a huge oversight (or a deliberate business decision to "dumb it down"?). Like you say, Mike, you better figure the final camera is going to cost 2x or 3x as much as the brains, so if we're talking $20K or $25K for a full-blown Scarlet 35mm, it should be able to overcrank to 60fps or at least 48fps. IMHO.

Hopefully this is one of the specs that can change.

 

[fightordie]

Boot time according to Ted on scarlet and epic is almost instantaneous compared to REd one's at about a minute. Will this change?

How much is the upgrade path of the REDone to better sensor going to cost?

Redone's highest bitrate now without upgrade is redcode 36. Its 4k only.

Scarlet 5K/Mysterium X/pl mount/ redcode 42 is $11,000 cheaper than redone. Is paying $11,000 more worth slow motion frame rates/ scaling options/ 4k,3K,2K, and soon - 1080p shooting options and LOWER recode bitrate?

The deciding factor for current Red one owners regarding their grief or their satisfaction for being early adopters will be the sensor upgrade cost (redcode 42/better S/N/ better DR) and boot time fix if possible on the red one. If RED makes those upgrades to red one's somewhat financially painless, there is no reason to be upset.

If those upgrades are doable at a cost most "working class" persons can accept and be happy with (Not everyone here is a rental house or independently wealthy or trust fund kid or owns a growing business), the RED one suddenly looks like a really great camera and accept for size and weight the scarlet just won't compete. And Red ones byline of "rendering obsolescence obsolete" can stand strong for them.

So heres to hoping for a a really affordable REDone sensor upgrade and instantaneous boot times.

 

[Chris Kenny]

Scarlet 5K/Mysterium X/pl mount/ redcode 42 is $11,000 cheaper than redone. Is paying $11,000 more worth slow motion frame rates/ scaling options/ 4k,3K,2K, and soon - 1080p shooting options and LOWER recode bitrate?

$7000 doesn't buy you a camera. It buys you a module with a sensor and some processing electronics. You still need to add a control mechanism, I/O module, lens mount and recording module to have the same functionality built into the Red One body. The prices on all of that haven't been announced yet.

 

[Ethan Cooper]

Thanks, useful info there.

The main thing that jumps out at me about all of this is that Scarlet S35mm and FF35mm really seem like great options, but the lack of overcranking is a huge oversight (or a deliberate business decision to "dumb it down"?). Like you say, Mike, you better figure the final camera is going to cost 2x or 3x as much as the brains, so if we're talking $20K or $25K for a full-blown Scarlet 35mm, it should be able to overcrank to 60fps or at least 48fps. IMHO.

Hopefully this is one of the specs that can change.

It's tough. If I were to spend $20K on a camera system I'd like the ability to overcrank as well, but Red does have to do something to differentiate the product lines. We'll see if I feel the same way when I start loading up my shopping cart online in a year or so.
________
MERCURY COMET PICTURE