12bit depth R3D going to DPX 10bit... are we losing quality?

[Desmond Ford]

When we render in DaVinci, are we losing a significant amount of color information/quality by going from a 12bit R3D to a a 10bit DPX file?

Most Flame artists ask me to give them 10bit DPX files, but recently one ask for 16bit DPX, so it got me thinking...



dezzy

 

[Mark Wilkinson]

This is a rabbit hole many of us have gone down in previous years.

There is a very, very small degree of data loss. And even that is complicated - R3D files are compressed, DPXs are not, etc., etc.

IMHO, your post workflow is far more important to honor than what is essentially an imperceptible amount of data loss.

Mark

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

16bit to 10bit DPX when you shoot Epic.... its a good question.

 

[Mark Wilkinson]

Actually, since the R3D files are RAW and are converted to 16-bit RGB before color correction, the real question is 16-bit linear or 10-bit log on output. Another rabbit hole. Both are extremely deep. 16-bit linear is deeper, but virtually the ENTIRE professional post production workflow is based on 10-bit log DPX, so pioneers beware.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

You don't loose data, but you may loose mathematical precision (which is not the same thing). You could loose data if you go to 10 bit linear light, but I'm assuming you're going to REDLogFilm. Where you will loos precision is in the highlights, but fortunately highlight are vastly over-precise in the raw sensor data, so it's highly unlikely to actually loose anything significant to the tone, texture or detail of the image.

As we move to Dragon, however, we'll have to re-evaluate the above as there's vastly more dynamic range and precision in the Dragon sensor data.

Graeme

 

[Mark Wilkinson]

Thank you for chiming in with the definitive answer

 

[Daniel Pitta]

thank you

 

[Valentin Paris]

The real dataloss is when it is transcode for a DCP on JPEG2000...

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

This is a rabbit hole many of us have gone down in previous years.

There is a very, very small degree of data loss. And even that is complicated - R3D files are compressed, DPXs are not, etc., etc.

IMHO, your post workflow is far more important to honor than what is essentially an imperceptible amount of data loss.

Mark

It's only imperceptible if you are doing minor shifts with your grading. If you're doing ISO changes, or windows in very subtle grads of color (soft power windows in the sky) or most of all if you are changing color temp in all or part of the image it's not minor at all. In these cases you might even notice latitude differences between Alexa RAW (slightly less than Red for some things) Sony F65 (slightly more) and Epic (middle).

 

[Robert Ruffo New]

Actually, since the R3D files are RAW and are converted to 16-bit RGB before color correction, the real question is 16-bit linear or 10-bit log on output. Another rabbit hole. Both are extremely deep. 16-bit linear is deeper, but virtually the ENTIRE professional post production workflow is based on 10-bit log DPX, so pioneers beware.

Yes but you can (and should) change the RAW settings used in that conversion right in the DaVinci interface - so if you stayed in RAW you still have full access to RAW data.