$1299 Seiki UHDTV 50" SE50UY04 - Bought it today

[Blair S. Paulsen]

While its great to hear about various graphics boards that can get 'er done, I have to say that I am more interested in a rock solid solution as long as its not big bank. Driving 4K at 60Hz without overheating, dropping frames, stuttering, dropping to 8 or even 6 bits, etc is how I want to roll. I'm happy with my $400 Radeon 7970, but finding a card closer to $100 that can easily handle 2160p at up to 60fps and doesn't require supplementary power could be very valuable to a lot of RedUsers. Just sayin'

Cheers - #19

 

[Neil W. Smith]

NVIDIA TITAN on PC working fine

NVIDIA TITAN on PC working fine

While its great to hear about various graphics boards that can get 'er done, I have to say that I am more interested in a rock solid solution as long as its not big bank. Driving 4K at 60Hz without overheating, dropping frames, stuttering, dropping to 8 or even 6 bits, etc is how I want to roll. I'm happy with my $400 Radeon 7970, but finding a card closer to $100 that can easily handle 2160p at up to 60fps and doesn't require supplementary power could be very valuable to a lot of RedUsers. Just sayin'

Cheers - #19

Connected the SEIKI to one of our SuperMicro PCs running a NVIDIA TITAN and got it running at 3840x2160P at 30Hz no problemo (there wasn't a higher refresh rate) ... connected first time under HDMI to HDMI but not Display Port to HDMI .... Windows in 4K is terrific ... in the morning will try Resolve and the 4K DeckLink Extreme under Win 7 ... looks like the refresh rate of the panel is the constraining factor with GPU cards and DeckLinks.

Also tried it on a Quadro K5000 on a MacPro Tower and no go ... could not get any signal to play out through Display Port or HDMI ... Apple OSX driver issue maybe?

Have to dash ... told the missus I'd be home an hour ago for dinner ... having way too much fun! ... will post some pixs in the morning.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Paul Provost]

Neil what frame rate are you trying in resolve?

 

[stephenv2]

I'm still having an issue with monitor coming back to 4K with screen flashing/flickering with image split into flickering quads. Anyone else seen this? I may have a bum unit. Put it in burn-in mode to see if that would fix, but can't figure out how to get it out of that mode

 

[Neil W. Smith]

Neil what frame rate are you trying in resolve?

Paul, I'm actually at home now eating my warmed up dinner on my own :-( ... apparently, telling your wife that you're late home because you were in the lab configuring a 4K TV is not a good thing ... I know, very surprising ... I am in the proverbial dog house at the moment for some reason.

Hopefully, the missus will let me go out to play in the morning and I'll be back in the lab where I'll install the 4K DeckLink card in the PC and see if I can get a UHD TV signal into the SEIKI ... tried every combination I could on the Mac but to no avail ... only ever got 1080P or 1080i up on the SEIKI ... don't think frame rate in Resolve is the issue on a Mac ... the Quadro K5000 is a pretty beefy card ... I think it's more to do with that fact that you can't change the refresh rate of the GPU or the DeckLink card .... you can do that in Windows using the NVIDIA control panel for the TITAN ... not sure about the DeckLink 4K under Windows.

Maybe Jeff will have better luck with the Macs ... he's on NY time so he's probably asleep now .

Assuming I can escape in the morning, I'll fire up the 4K Extreme and see if I can get a 4K signal out of the HDMI port into the SEIKI .... Windows at 4K sure looks pretty damn good! ... shame the Display Port port won't drive the panel.

Will send pixs.

Neil

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Which Jeff? I'm not on NY time and I rarely sleep... No sign of my seiki yet.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

No, it's not that simple. My old MSI Hawk N460GTX can output 4K to this panel just fine. I plugged it in using DVI to HDMI adapter.

OK fine, but I was talking about HDMI output, not DVI. That's a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Posted the above as an edit before realizing the original post was already buried.

NEVER MIND: I have the Fermi instead of the Ti version. And I can't find any proof the Fermi is 1.4a.

Elsie, there are now basically two different variants of HDMI 1.4. There's the original, non-3GHz one which can't do 4K -- and the newer "Fast HDMI" 3GHz one which supports 4K. But both can be, and are, listed as HDMI 1.4 in brochures.

 

[houkouonchi]

I am not sure if its active but it said it supported 1080p@ 120Hz and that it was HDMI 1.4 so i duno.

Anyway... Some good news... for a change.

The monitor is not picky on input. I was able to do 1280x720 @ 133Hz with my 165 Mhz bandwidth limit. I can tell it was *definitely* outputing at over 80Hz too (which is around the limit of my eyes) when I ran quakelive and stepmania (its very obvious in those games). Less ghosting than on my catleap monitor to boot. Just about 0 input lag at that resolution as well. The scaling was kinda lame though. Not sure whats up with that.

Screenshot:



Makes me think you can probably do 1920x1080@120Hz if I had correct HDMI working...

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Okay, found a factory service controls with advanced color controls, by input

Excellent. That's fantastic news, thanks!

 

[John Bellari]

I am not sure if its active but it said it supported 1080p@ 120Hz and that it was HDMI 1.4 so i duno.

Anyway... Some good news... for a change.

The monitor is not picky on input. I was able to do 1280x720 @ 133Hz with my 165 Mhz bandwidth limit. I can tell it was *definitely* outputing at over 80Hz too ...
Makes me think you can probably do 1920x1080@120Hz if I had correct HDMI working...

Very good news- that's the highest refresh rate I've seen yet. You were using custom timings
with the GTX 470 to get 133Hz showing on the display?

Also, I saw 2205 width showing on the set INFO display when sent a 3D signal from LG Blu Ray player- seems this set has a lot of tweaks yet uncovered...

It is very encouraging so many low end cards support 4K desktop over HDMI on older systems, and also last night the AMD 7990 was released with HDMI port also, and they have a graph comparing 4K gaming at 30Hz with full detail versus the GTX 690 as some kind of new metric to meet...

Open Question:

Anybody having success driving the panel 3840x2160 at 30Hz with nvidia Kepler-based Quadro cards or laptops using the Displayport to HDMI adaptor and able to confirm 10 bit depth is preserved?

 

[Neil W. Smith]

Open Question:

Anybody having success driving the panel 3840x2160 at 30Hz with nvidia Kepler-based Quadro cards or laptops using the Displayport to HDMI adaptor and able to confirm 10 bit depth is preserved?

Short answer ... NO ... tried that last night ... had a DP to HDMI cable into HDMI port #1 and HDMI to HDMI into port #3 running off a TITAN on a PC and could not get any kind of signal to display out of the DP cable ... HDMI to HDMI worked just fine at 3840x2160 @ 30HZ ... also, looks to me like the panel is only 6 bit with 8 bit dithering or maybe 8 bit with 10 bit dithering (but doubt it).

On a Mac with a Quadro K5000 could not get a 3840x2160 signal to display on either the DP or HDMI output ... you can't change refresh rates on a Mac.

Neil

 

[Elsie N]

Elsie, there are now basically two different variants of HDMI 1.4. There's the original, non-3GHz one which can't do 4K -- and the newer "Fast HDMI" 3GHz one which supports 4K. But both can be, and are, listed as HDMI 1.4 in brochures.

Yeah, more digging showed the HDMI 1.4a specs seem to be more about 3D stuff, while some info on 1.4 said it was capable of doing 4k x 2k. Like you said... probably has to do with the Keppler architecture.

 

[John Bellari]

Short answer ... NO ... tried that last night ... had a DP to HDMI cable into HDMI port #1 and HDMI to HDMI into port #3 running off a TITAN on a PC and could not get any kind of signal to display out of the DP cable ... HDMI to HDMI worked just fine at 3840x2160 @ 30HZ ... also, looks to me like the panel is only 6 bit with 8 bit dithering or maybe 8 bit with 10 bit dithering (but doubt it).

On a Mac with a Quadro K5000 could not get a 3840x2160 signal to display on either the DP or HDMI output ... you can't change refresh rates on a Mac.

Neil

Hi Neil,

Maybe the Quadro issue is Mac driver related?

Thanks for the feedback, as we are looking for a new Quadro card or mobile quadro laptop for 4K output.

Houkouonchi earlier in this thread seems to get his Macbook Pro Retina displaying 4K using Windows, not that that's what you want to run, but maybe as a check could you see if it works somehow...

 

[stephenv2]

Open Question:

Anybody having success driving the panel 3840x2160 at 30Hz with nvidia Kepler-based Quadro cards or laptops using the Displayport to HDMI adaptor and able to confirm 10 bit depth is preserved?

I've been researching this extensively 10-bit is only possible with Quadro according nVidia's sites and specs as well as multiple independent sources (prad.de etc.). AMD's is a little less clear, but appears to be the same case, FireGL cards are required. 10-bit is only over display port. I've found nothing that 10-bit can go over HDMI. The only open question I believe is display port to HDMI via adapter cable

 

[John Bellari]

I've been researching this extensively 10-bit is only possible with Quadro according nVidia's sites and specs as well as multiple independent sources (prad.de etc.). AMD's is a little less clear, but appears to be the same case, FireGL cards are required. 10-bit is only over display port. I've found nothing that 10-bit can go over HDMI. The only open question I believe is display port to HDMI via adapter cable

From HDMI.org

"HDMI 1.3:

• Higher speed: HDMI 1.3 increases its single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbps) to support the demands of future HD display devices, such as higher resolutions, Deep Color and high frame rates. In addition, built into the HDMI 1.3 specification is the technical foundation that will let future versions of HDMI reach significantly higher speeds.
• Deep Color: HDMI 1.3 supports 10-bit, 12-bit and 16-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths, up from the 8-bit depths in previous versions of the HDMI specification, for stunning rendering of over one billion colors in unprecedented detail.
• Broader color space: HDMI 1.3 adds support for “x.v.Color™” (which is the consumer name describing the IEC 61966-2-4 xvYCC color standard), which removes current color space limitations and enables the display of any color viewable by the human eye. "

From "all-knowing" wiki,

The HDMI 1.3 specification defines bit depths of 30 bits (1.073 billion colors), 36 bits (68.71 billion colors), and 48 bits (281.5 trillion colors).[9] In that regard, the Nvidia graphics cards manufactured after 2006 support 30-bit deep color[11] as do some models of the Radeon HD 5900 series such as the HD 5970. The ATI FireGL V7350 graphics card supports 40-bit and 64-bit color."

nVidia still promotes the Quadros as their only cards to be used for content creation and 10 bit output, yet they are nowhere close to the performance of consumer cards for game play frame rates, cuda cores and do not include the same compute ability of the Titan cards onboard, so I find it slightly confusing (can anybody clarify the difference or relative worth?)

I've always assumed Blu-Ray players do implement "Deep Color" 30 bits (1.073 billion colors) because the HDMI 1.3 and above spec enables it, but that doesn't automatically mean the computer Video card hardware manufacturers implemented it on every card...

 

[stephenv2]

Of course, because the HDMI 1.3 and above spec supports proper 30 bits (1.073 billion colors) doesn't automatically mean the hardware manufacturer implemented it.

That's the rub right there. HDMI has support but neither nVidia or AMD have implemented it on HDMI or Display port on their consumer line, my guess is to drive people to the Quadro. I've had a couple of laptops with Quadro and had a desktop card years ago, but pricing was always the problem. I'm looking at price/performance right now and it's loser for sure. I've looked at this heavily in the past couple of days - and found nothing to point to anyway to get 10-bit out of consumer GPUs (except for a couple of narrow app specific of no practical use).

I would love to be proved wrong. But my testing with GTX 660 shows nothing but glorious 8-bit off HDMI and Displayport.

 

[John Bellari]

That's the rub right there. HDMI has support but neither nVidia or AMD have implemented it on HDMI or Display port on their consumer line, my guess is to drive people to the Quadro. I've had a couple of laptops with Quadro and had a desktop card years ago, but pricing was always the problem. I'm looking at price/performance right now and it's loser for sure. I've looked at this heavily in the past couple of days - and found nothing to point to anyway to get 10-bit out of consumer GPUs (except for a couple of narrow app specific of no practical use).

I would love to be proved wrong. But my testing with GTX 660 shows nothing but glorious 8-bit off HDMI and Displayport.

It is tough finding any real-world answers from nVidia tech support at this point, as they simply push Quadro for any DCC and seem to represent 4K TV's "should" have displayport- However both the new upcoming Sony 55" and 65" 4K models have HDMI ONLY as well (at over triple the price of the Seiki, so price is not the issue with displayport being implemented on 4K TV's) as well as all recent 4K home theater receivers and upconverting 4K blu-ray players are HDMI only...

We are looking at picking up a GTX 660 3GB vs a Quadro K2000 2GB or Quadro K3000M on laptop, but the Quadro displayport to HDMI conversion is holding us back if 4K output at 10 bit doesn't work over HDMI after conversion from displayport...

 

[L. Langer]

That's the rub right there. HDMI has support but neither nVidia or AMD have implemented it on HDMI or Display port on their consumer line, my guess is to drive people to the Quadro. I've had a couple of laptops with Quadro and had a desktop card years ago, but pricing was always the problem. I'm looking at price/performance right now and it's loser for sure. I've looked at this heavily in the past couple of days - and found nothing to point to anyway to get 10-bit out of consumer GPUs (except for a couple of narrow app specific of no practical use).

I would love to be proved wrong. But my testing with GTX 660 shows nothing but glorious 8-bit off HDMI and Displayport.

The real rub is the software. Only a handful of apps support 10-bit color under Windows and it can be done using fullscreen DirectX (very unlikely and nobody does it so far as I know) or OpenGL buffering (how Adobe does it) but the Windows OS itself as well as the majority of software applications that use DirectX are locked at 8-bit color by design because that's what the Windows Desktop is built around. To make matters worse, Nvidia has locked down the drivers because on the Linux side, 10-bit color is a done-deal through HDMI or DisplayPort and your card could do it with the appropriate configuration. Since there are few 10-bit panels and few 10-bit displays, it's not a priority though I suspect it will become the norm in the next decade.

 

[houkouonchi]

Here is some pictures of the advanced menu system for anyone interested: