$1299 Seiki UHDTV 50" SE50UY04 - Bought it today

[Les Dittert]

I noticed in the Seiki service menu's that there are some settings for HDMI timings.
I'm afraid of meddling in there because of the chance of bricking the whole shebang.
The panel part may be 10bit ( as per the PDF someone posted, but that is just the panel. The Seiki is that panel with their front end HDMI/tuner electronics driving it. Different PDF



Seiki is coming out with a 39" and a 65" I read somewhere.

Rocket or K3G through the Hi5 should be 10-bit, the hi5 specs say 10bit, the panel is 10bit, hdmi1.4 allows 36bit @ 4k/24. Did you try a ramp test pattern or gradient?

Side note, Using nvidia card, in the nvidia control panel you can switch from RGB to YCbCr444, and SEIKI and Sony monitor sync to both. I thought maybe it was a RGB vs YUV problem, as the BM HDMI stuff is YUV only, but thats not the case - must be just a timing problem, BM must not be using reduced blanking.

As to the drop outs, can confirm same issue - PS3 Bluray -> Onkyo 818 with 4k upconversion, works, but randomly looses sync.
If you look at the service mode menu, the HDMI switch spread spectrum is non-functional. That would reduce emi on the inputs, could be the cause, or could be just nonfunctional in the menu.

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

... K3G through the Hi5 should be 10-bit, the hi5 specs say 10bit, the panel is 10bit, hdmi1.4 allows 36bit @ 4k/24. ...

Bill, ... What does the Kona card expected to do? Is it cost effective ? I know some of these cards are needed for output to tape, but I stay away from tape these days.

Les, one of the primary uses of a Kona card is to get a 10 bit preview or monitor signal out to a separate monitor. Certain programs, like Scratch or Nuke, will work quite well with a Kona to output a preview or monitor signal out to a separate monitor. (I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that GTX's are "crippled" to 8 bit output and if you want 10 bit output, you have to step up to a Quadro.) However, as mentioned by Christoper, the Kona cards will output 10 bit and will do much more than that ... just check the literature on AJA's site.

... On RCX version 17, the second screen as UHD works as expected. As it should, it is just a second PC display, just has a few more pixels. ...

By that I assume you mean that you have just have another huge 4K PC display showing the program and the UI? Great. If that works for you. I prefer to have the program/UI on one monitor and the preview/monitor showing just the footage on a separate monitor, without seeing the program or the UI. Like I said, download RCX 18, (it won't over-write 17), load in some R3D's, click the little monitor icon near the rocket at the bottom of the screen and let us know what you see on your Seiki.

Hi5 4K is shipping in limited quantity it seems. I know a couple people who have one and have got to play with it myself -- with the SEIKI. I can't answer about different modes. It seems like it takes whatever 4 matching SDI feeds it's given and spits out something compliant with HDMI 1.4a. It pretty much means 8bit / 24bits per pixel RGB. Not sure on the chroma sampling translation i.e. 4:2:2, etc.. and how it translates through. SEIKI did not lose sync in any of the small amount of testing done. It worked, via output from the Rocket and from the Kona 3G. That's really all that I have to say about it.

Yes indeed. The Hi5-4K's are in extremely short supply. However, the fact that you have tested the Kona 3G and and the Hi-5 4K on the Seiki and they worked, is great news! I also agree with your earlier comments that basically the Seiki leaves a lot to be desired from a quality standpoint. It might be a piece of shit ... but it is an affordable 4K piece of shit. However, there is probably one thing that unites us all: We all want 4K NOW and many of us really don't want to spend an arm-and-a-leg to be the first kid on the block with this new toy. Because of the quality (or lack thereof) of the panel, I am not surprised at all that some us will be returning their panels and getting a replacement. Part of the excitement (head-ache) of being early-adopters.


_____________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Les Dittert]

Bill, on RCX 17 I just set the RCX 'second monitor' to the Seiki. Then in 'view' I tell RCX to display video on second monitor. Done.
My primary monitor is a 30" Dell.
This puts nothing but the picture on the Seiki. The rest is on your smaller monitor.
Are you looking for something different than this ?
I couldn't find RCX 18 Alpha , so I wasn't able to test that. It would have the second monitor option as well, I would think ?

The Seiki HDMI is not 10 bit, so I'm told, so what use is the 10 bit stuff anyway, as far as the Seiki goes. It is just going to end up looking exactly the same.

Les, one of the primary uses of a Kona card is to get a 10 bit preview or monitor signal out to a separate monitor. Certain programs, like Scratch or Nuke, will work quite well with a Kona to output a preview or monitor signal out to a separate monitor. (I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that GTX's are "crippled" to 8 bit output and if you want 10 bit output, you have to step up to a Quadro.) However, as mentioned by Christoper, the Kona cards will output 10 bit and will do much more than that ... just check the literature on AJA's site.



By that I assume you mean that you have just have another huge 4K PC display showing the program and the UI? Great. If that works for you. I prefer to have the program/UI on one monitor and the preview/monitor showing just the footage on a separate monitor, without seeing the program or the UI. Like I said, download RCX 18, (it won't over-write 17), load in some R3D's, click the little monitor icon near the rocket at the bottom of the screen and let us know what you see on your Seiki.

 

[Neil W. Smith]

SEIKI is 10 bit

SEIKI is 10 bit

...The Seiki HDMI is not 10 bit, so I'm told, so what use is the 10 bit stuff anyway, as far as the Seiki goes. It is just going to end up looking exactly the same.

Les , not sure who is telling you that the SEIKI is not 10 bit but you might want to check where they're getting their information from .... there's a very smart engineer in northern China who might beg to differ .... the UHD resolution plus 10 bit colorimetry is one of the reasons that the SEIKI produces such a good looking image (once it's been calibrated).

EPIC 4k footage played on the panel looks stunning .... no 8 bit banding on any fine contour scenes like skies and faces.

The parent company of SEIKI produce around 10 million panels a year for all kinds of OEM and white box TV manufacturers .... they know a thing or two about LCD technology .... please check your facts before you make those kind of assertions.

We've shown graded 4k EPIC footage playing on the SEIKI to many professional post and production people .... everyone has been pleasantly surprised with the image resolution and color fidelity.

Neil

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I would have a lot of use for a 39", but a 50" and a RED PROjector would be the best setup. Whatever your desktop monitors don't mater.

 

[Les Dittert]

Neil,
That's good to know. So if you feed it with software ( Fusion or Nuke ) that can change the bit depth, you see the banding when you switch to 8 bits?
For me it looks Fantastic even at eight bits. I rarely see any banding in most footage. Every red user should own this monitor or something similar.

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

Bill, on RCX 17 I just set the RCX 'second monitor' to the Seiki. Then in 'view' I tell RCX to display video on second monitor. Done.
This puts nothing but the picture on the Seiki. The rest is on your smaller monitor. ... I couldn't find RCX 18 Alpha , so I wasn't able to test that.

Cool. I didn't know you could do that with RCX Pro. I learned something today. I will have to give that a try. Thanks.

Here is the link to RCX Pro 18 Alpha:

http://red.cachefly.net/redcinex/app...pha_64-bit.msi

Les , not sure who is telling you that the SEIKI is not 10 bit but you might want to check where they're getting their information from .... there's a very smart engineer in northern China who might beg to differ .... the UHD resolution plus 10 bit colorimetry is one of the reasons that the SEIKI produces such a good looking image (once it's been calibrated). EPIC 4k footage played on the panel looks stunning .... no 8 bit banding on any fine contour scenes like skies and faces.

This gets back to my other point: If you are feeding the Seiki from your GTX card, I have a strong suspicion that it is only a 8 bit signal. It probably is not a big deal (unless you do a lot of serious color correction or VFX work) but you have paid for a panel that will do 4K at 10 bits, it would be nice to actually see a 10 bit signal in 4K .... that's as good as it gets for most us right now! The Kona 3G card will do that (as confirmed by Jeff). It appears that the Decklink 4K card (as confirmed by Neil) has some problems doing that.

... So if you feed it with software ( Fusion or Nuke ) that can change the bit depth, you see the banding when you switch to 8 bits?
For me it looks Fantastic even at eight bits.

Well, I don't think it is so much an issue of does the software "change" the bit depth, but at what bit depth is the software capable of outputting to or rendering. For example: a 10 bit DPX file? In Premiere Pro, there has been 10 bit color support since version 5.02 (as long as you had a Quadro card back then ... now ... that 10 bit support includes Kona and BMD as long as you have a proper monitor that supports 10 bit). See:

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/nvidia-and-adobe-solutions/10bit-color/


_____________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

All the Kepler GPUs and most of the higher level Fermi GeForce cards support 10bit output. The trick is the software has to enable it, typically via a full-screen customized mode such as an OpenGL drawing surface. The Fermi based Quadro cards and newer all support 10bit the same way. ATI cards work the same way. The standard graphics interfaces in OSX and Windows for desktop display are both limited to 8bit. I don't recall if the older GTX285 can do 10bit or not.

As for RC-X, I don't know if they're using 10bit for the 2nd display output or not. I almost always monitor via the Rocket, so have not paid attention... When monitoring out of Premiere or most other apps, if you want better than 8bit, you have to use a Kona or Decklink card or similar output system that specifically supports what you're looking for.

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

All the Kepler GPUs and most of the higher level Fermi GeForce cards support 10bit output. The trick is the software has to enable it, ...

Jeff: So, I guess that means there are currently windows drivers for GeForce cards that support 10 bit? I heard they had 10 bit Linux drivers for their GeForce cards.

_____________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Dave Archer]

Just a heads up

Just a heads up

Looked at availability at Tiger Direct this morning.

They are showing most retail stores as limited available. So go out and kick the tires if you're close to one.
Do check the webpage for store in your area.

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

... As for RC-X, I don't know if they're using 10bit for the 2nd display output or not. I almost always monitor via the Rocket, so have not paid attention...

Hmmm ... that is a good question? I would assume that the Rocket is 10 bit out? Something that the brain-trust at RED will have to answer. However, Grant at RED did say this:

The main advantage [to monitoring out via a Kona or BMD card] is that with REDRocket, it's not currently possible to send out post-effects such as Alchemy, Film Look, Unsharp Mask through the Rockets SDI output ports. With AJA/Blackmagic cards, all of those effects are piped through to the SDI monitor as well.

I think it would make sense to have the monitor out be 10 bit ... but I guess only RED knows for sure.

_____________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Bob Gundu]

Is anyone else excited about Seiki bringing out larger sets?

 

[Robert Horwell]

Anyone know if these are available in Europe .?

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

Will be interesting if you do round up another player. Other than my OPPO, which I've only had for a short time, I have an older Sony BDP-S350 ...

@Jeff: I have a hunch it may be our OPPO 103's. I just picked up a Sony BDP-S790 (all of $250.00). I tried it on all 3 HDMI imputs using the blue Seiki HDMI cable and the OPPO ferrite HDMI cable. I played a BD of Downton Abbey and a home burned BD and they both up-scaled and played flawlessly. No drop-outs, hand-shake/sync issues or judder (at least to my eyes ... maybe your eyes are better than mine on that subject). The RedMere cables haven't materialized yet, but I don't think the cables are the issue. It will be interesting to hear what the OPPO guys say.

_____________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[L. Langer]

Anyone know if these are available in Europe .?

Coming soon.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

To scale

To scale

Looking forward to the BMD 4K Extreme card properly supporting the Seiki, the Sony's , etc - hopefully we're just a driver/firmware revision away.

Very interested in the ability to take a 4096 by 2160 signal input, and output at 3840 via either internal scaling or chopping off the sides, user selectable, though that may be optimistic.

At the risk of going on a tangent, I have been considering the best format for my new UHD/4K demo reel. It seems to me that 3840 by 2160 resolution would be most likely to play out 1:1 pixels on the Seiki and other UHD only panels. Was grading/mastering some 4096 by 2160 material to a ProRes4444 UHD version Thursday and the default setting scaled at .937 to fit width with a small letterbox. I decided to instead chop off 128 pixels per side to avoid potential scaling artifacts.

This got me thinking about best practices for using 3840 panels like the Seiki for QC purposes, particularly focus. It seems to me that it might make sense to stick to 1.78:1 (16x9) formats on camera so you see a truer representation of the image sharpness and geometry during QC. I'm also thinking that for 1.89:1 (DCI), 2:1 and 2.35:1 aspect deliverables I might want to just build in the letterbox with black pixels. I would expect most higher end panels and projectors to have decent scalers, but, how much of a bummer would it be to see your carefully mastered image get turned to mush in front of a client or audience due to funky scaling...

Cheers - #19

 

[Peter Majtan]

Blair - this is and will remain the major issue for post. I prefer to watch 50% of a 4096 master (rather the monitor-scaled 4096 to 3840) in order to judge overall color and composition and then switch to 100% (pixel-for-pixel) when need to check sharpness, compositing artifacts, etc...

For this very reason I hope that the RED projector is 4096 native...
If not - I think I will end up mastering everything in UHD with letterbox...

P

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Is anyone else excited about Seiki bringing out larger sets?

Absolutely! I am trying to hold off buying this 50" so I can get the 65". Don't know how long I can last though!

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

@Jeff: I have a hunch it may be our OPPO 103's. I just picked up a Sony BDP-S790 (all of $250.00). I tried it on all 3 HDMI imputs using the blue Seiki HDMI cable and the OPPO ferrite HDMI cable. I played a BD of Downton Abbey and a home burned BD and they both up-scaled and played flawlessly. No drop-outs, hand-shake/sync issues or judder (at least to my eyes ... maybe your eyes are better than mine on that subject). The RedMere cables haven't materialized yet, but I don't think the cables are the issue. It will be interesting to hear what the OPPO guys say.

Hmmm.... I don't know. The OPPO plays without judder on my other displays supporting 24Hz or a multiple thereof. Anyway, I just turned the OPPO on and was notified that there's a firmware update, which definitely was not there 24 hours ago. Actually looking at their site, it was released two days ago. Downloading/ installing now... There may indeed be something between the SEIKI and the OPPO. Let's see what happens.

I only have drop-outs on my HDMI 3 input. Only at 4K. And I can duplicate it with the OPPO or with a PC...


....Waiting to see what this firmware does for us.

 

[Dave Archer]

Took my own advice

Took my own advice

Went to the TigerDirect store here in Clearwater Florida.

They had the Seiki hooked to a 'Gamer' Win7 PC with a 600 series nvidia card driving HDMI 1.4 direct with the Seiki blue cable.

They had a third party calibration disk there to try to 'accessorize' the Seiki with...So I assume they dialed it as best they could with that.

As for 4K content they had Tom Lowe's Timescapes short in 4k and it looked fabulous.

I'm not sure if the video card was upresing but the HD content I brought on a USB looked great too.

It was nice to see the Epic 700 reel on it. and Mark Toia's helicopter footage.
I was lucky enough to download the Red NAB13 reel before the link on Vimeo got disabled .

Played that like 3 times in a row. (sound sucked but I expected that)

All I can say is wonderful.