125fps

[Edward Saltau]

So I just thought I'd post this as maybe a request but also to see how useful it would be to others.

As someone who operates in PAL lands, 25p is my base for everything. I'm buying Raven to film wildlife. Often when filming wildlife you do your best to shoot at the best frame rate for the action. But almost invariably this gets changed in the edit. Because of this I nearly always shoot in multiples of 25 to allows a a clean real time version to be made in the edit. I know the shutter angle is off when you speed up like that but it's the reality of filming wildlife and unpredictable subjects.

So my point is, 4.5k @ 125fps would be incredible useful. Otherwise I'll probably max out at 100fps. I know red probably maxes this out as it is but if there was any way to get it to 125 it would be incredibly useful to me. I'm wondering if others would be in the same boat? Seems so close that I'd love to at least hear from red on this. 5 frames!

helluva camera still so this is a bit cheeky i guess...

 

[Anton Shavlik]

It's been talked about a lot before and it seems the current sensor is absolutely maxed out on framerates. 4k widescreen should have 150fps at least.

 

[Maik Müller]

Why limit yourself to 100 when you can shoot 120? Seriously, the math does make your mind think it's not clean or something, but in reality it's fine. Timebase doesn't matter that much when it comes to highspeed, those 120fps just play 1fps quicker than with a timebase of 24, that will be all.

Otherwise, nope, i'm not a huge fan of the "shooting 25 just because i'm in PAL-land"-idea. Nowadays that timebase is solely needed for PAL-TV, nothing else. If i'm shooting for TV or if the customer forces me to shoot 25/50, then i'll do that. Otherwise i stay with the world-wide-standard of 24p (and speedup for PAL-TV if needed - like it's done with most other international stuff). Every other distribution channel takes 23.98/24/48/60 just fine, often still works even better with that (display-tech for example).

I had hopes for DVB-S(2) to introduce support for other refresh-rates than 50hz, but no...

So I just thought I'd post this as maybe a request but also to see how useful it would be to others.

As someone who operates in PAL lands, 25p is my base for everything. I'm buying Raven to film wildlife. Often when filming wildlife you do your best to shoot at the best frame rate for the action. But almost invariably this gets changed in the edit. Because of this I nearly always shoot in multiples of 25 to allows a a clean real time version to be made in the edit. I know the shutter angle is off when you speed up like that but it's the reality of filming wildlife and unpredictable subjects.

So my point is, 4.5k @ 125fps would be incredible useful. Otherwise I'll probably max out at 100fps. I know red probably maxes this out as it is but if there was any way to get it to 125 it would be incredibly useful to me. I'm wondering if others would be in the same boat? Seems so close that I'd love to at least hear from red on this. 5 frames!

helluva camera still so this is a bit cheeky i guess...

 

[Björn Benckert]

Why limit yourself to 100 when you can shoot 120? Seriously, the math does make your mind think it's not clean or something, but in reality it's fine. Timebase doesn't matter that much when it comes to highspeed, those 120fps just play 1fps quicker than with a timebase of 24, that will be all.

Otherwise, nope, i'm not a huge fan of the "shooting 25 just because i'm in PAL-land"-idea. Nowadays that timebase is solely needed for PAL-TV, nothing else. If i'm shooting for TV or if the customer forces me to shoot 25/50, then i'll do that. Otherwise i stay with the world-wide-standard of 24p (and speedup for PAL-TV if needed - like it's done with most other international stuff). Every other distribution channel takes 23.98/24/48/60 just fine, often still works even better with that (display-tech for example).

I had hopes for DVB-S(2) to introduce support for other refresh-rates than 50hz, but no...

Thats wrong. As time base have a lot to do with Hz on lights and if you shoot 120 and divide by 4 you get 30fps (not real time) or by 5 you get you get 24 (not realtime) and possibly thats not an issue to work with un even numbers but when you toss audio into the mix it becomes a bit of a headache. As then you need to stretch the audio to fit and that comes with a bit of issues for the editor and eveyone involved.

It´s easy to say, that nobody spot the difference of 24p played back in 25p but people do care and it causes a lot of frustation among old retarded DPs that are not good with math and can not figure out what to do, sound guys that are worried that their sound will get all messed up when retimed. Editors that think "everything is out of sync" and sound studio guys that shake their heads and says this will cost you a lot of money... etc etc. So for those reasons I think it would be very vice of red to let the camera work in 50Hz electricity regions just as well as it works in the states that decided to go with the... even number of 60hz.

Another thing. There is a way to get around shutter angle issues with shooting over cranked and then retime to realtime in post... If you shot lets say 100fps and then timewarp 400% to get back to 25p you only got 1/4 of the wanted motion blur. But if you shoot 100fps and 360 shutter then you can timewarp with a mix of 0.5 and get perfect 25p with 180 deg shutter..... not only that you also get a improvement in less noise for doing so. As you then mix two 100fps 360 shutter frames together to make one 25p 180deg shutter frames, so the result noise is something that can be seen like a frame average of two 100fps 360 frames.

now ofcourse the above does give you a 100fps with 360 shutter which is possibly not ideal if you want it to play back all the frames in 25p but at such high frame rate the exsessive motion blur is often not really visible. I for one pretty much always shot 50fps 360shutter just to have the option of using the extra frames if needed. And if I could shoot 100fps and not the current 98 point something then that would be even better and I would not need to hear all the fuss from everyone involved at set and in post and light flicker is an issue.