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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

12 on 12 off

Luckily on my last show we were held to a 12-hour work day -- after eight months of that, I was pretty tired even on Mondays let alone Fridays. I remember seeing a doctor near the end of the shoot for flu-like symptoms (body aches, head aches, dizziness, etc.) and he said it was just exhaustion!

It's all a calculation on the part of production companies, the hourly rates of the crew versus the cost of the location, the equipment rentals, and most of all, the A-list actors who get paid huge sums and therefore have a limited number of days that the production can afford to have them on set. So if it's going to cost you another million dollars to hold an actor for another day or two, suddenly it looks cheaper to pay 50 or 100 people for overtime and work them 14 or 16 hours a day instead.

The LAST thing that should happen is to change the rules so that double-rate overtime begins at 14 hours instead of 12 hours, that's basically like saying that a 14-hour day is the new normal working day. People who don't work on features or TV series often don't think a 14-hour day is a big deal, but do it regularly for a few months in a row and it becomes very dangerous. Tired people are not safe -- not safe on the road, not safe operating heavy equipment, etc. And that doesn't even bring creativity into the mix.

It's not going to change unless there is either a financial penalty for working long hours, i.e. overtime gets so high that it is not cost-effective relative to the other costs, or A-list actors rates come back down into a realm closer to the rest of the people working on a production, or the government steps in puts severe restrictions on going beyond 12-hours for a work day. Or the Producers Guild of America decide that for humane reasons to limit the day to 12-hours or require a 12-hour turnaround for everyone, not just the actors.

The drivers have it the worse because they start before everyone else and finish after everyone else, so if the crew is working a 14-hour day, then they are working a 16-hour day.
 
Thanks for posting this Shane. Good stuff, and good for the producer, Gavin Palone, for sticking his neck out - pretty courageous. It could be argued that since budgets are a zero sum game - fixed for the purposes of a given show or movie - a hefty component of what drives this madness is above the line fees, especially for producers and talent. I have been waiting a long time for some of the more prominent leftists in the acting and producing worlds to put their money where their mouths are and distribute the wealth. Even 50% of their substantial fees would go a long way toward increasing pay and reducing hours for below the line crew. I'm not holding my breath, however.

In the meantime, it's a free market and as long as the glamour of the film business holds out, there will be endless lines of young people waiting to kill themselves for the "silver screen," which will drive down rates and increase hours. There are many other factors, but I don't know if this one ever gets solved.
 
The sad truth is that it's not going to change until someone working on a high profile movie or tv show dies on set from exhaustion and the studio gets their asses handed to them in court.
 
Brad Webb said:
The sad truth is that it's not going to change until someone working on a high profile movie or tv show dies on set from exhaustion and the studio gets their asses handed to them in court.
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Sad, Sad and more Sad,

So true that in NYC PA's who are doing the same hours as you for 1/8th the pay. Can't even pay their rent, most lived at home or with relatives in the city. 4500 hours a year for 50,000 Dollars a year dealing with the general public, primadona actors/actresses, and other stresses .. sad sad
 
Brad Webb said:
The sad truth is that it's not going to change until someone working on a high profile movie or tv show dies on set from exhaustion and the studio gets their asses handed to them in court.
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That already happened (at least the crewmember dying part) 15 years ago when Brent Hershman died after falling asleep at the wheel after a 19 hour day. That incident is what inspired the "12 on 12 off" movement championed by Haskell Wexler and a number of others. It's also why the 12 hour day is often referred to (at least in Los Angeles) as "Brent's Rule." The fact that it's been 15 years should tell you something about the chances of it actually changing anything. The only time it changes is when you are lucky enough to have enlightened producers, as David did.
 
Honestly the long hours never really bother me, because for the most part things move at an acceptable pace. You're not in a constant whirlwind of activity for those twelve hours.

What bothers me is when production tries to fit twenty shots in a day, and that pace increases. The justification is often "Yes we do have a lot of shots, but they're very short!" Of course, the length of the shot doesn't matter if it's a new setup every two shots...sometimes this has a cherry on top like "And the last shot is a zolly."

What I WOULD like to see is travel time being factored into turnaround times more.
 
Call me crazy, but I like to spend time with my wife in the evenings after work. I'd like to not be exhausted all weekend so I can go out to a movie with her and not fall asleep in the middle of it. 12-hour days for months on end are tolerable, not ideal, but 14-hours+ for months on end is insanity, it's for young people with lots of energy and no family or friends. And, again, it's not safe. And worst of all, you don't just put your life at risk driving home tired, you put innocent people on the road at risk.

And camera people have one of the few crew positions where you work during the set-up AND during the take. Actors mainly work during the take (and rehearsals, make-up time, etc.) and other crew people work during the set-ups and can rest during the takes. If I step away just to take a piss, there is a PA following me on a walkie reporting on when I enter and leave the john, it's crazy. Or I hear: "he's headed for the craft service table... he's looking at the donuts... no, he's headed back to set..."
 
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David Mullen ASC said:
Call me crazy, but I like to spend time with my wife in the evenings after work. I'd like to not be exhausted all weekend so I can go out to a movie with her and not fall asleep in the middle of it. 12-hour days for months on end are tolerable, not ideal, but 14-hours+ for months on end is insanity, it's for young people with lots of energy and no family or friends. And, again, it's not safe. And worst of all, you don't just put your life at risk driving home tired, you put innocent people on the road at risk.

And camera people have one of the few crew positions where you work during the set-up AND during the take. Actors mainly work during the take (and rehearsals, make-up time, etc.) and other crew people work during the set-ups and can rest during the takes. If I step away just to take a piss, there is a PA following me on a walkie reporting on when I enter and leave the john, it's crazy. Or I hear: "he's headed for the craft service table... he's looking at the donuts... no, he's headed back to set..."
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Hear Hear. Well said David.
 
i am a gaffer and after waiting for the relevant authorities and/or producers to make an enforceable ruling re maximum hours worked i made my own.

my deal memo/working conditions contract includes a rule which states.

i work a 10 hour day and will work up to two hours overtime at double time if asked politely in advance but:

LIGHTS OUT AT 12 HOURS (THIS IS NOT NEGOTIABLE)

i make it quite clear from the moment of first contact by producers that i will work a maximum 12 hour day which is not negotiable. that is one of my working conditions
and if that is not suitable for you, find someone else.

i have had to enforce this condition 3 times in the last 12 months. needless to say several of the producers have not spoken to me since. (do i look worried....)
i am good at what i do and consider myself an asset to any production, so really it is their loss.

cheers
 
The times when I experienced dangerous situations on sets (twice people got close to being killed) was after having worked long hours for multiple days with short turn around times.

Once I was on a production that offered to drive us on long days. Made a huge difference.
 
I have done 18 hours days for months on end, with no days off, each time I opened a new Restaurant, that got me no life, and a serious draw back on health, in moviemaking business, I decided that this would be much different, I don't work in the Movie Business, I am the Movie Business as much as the Movie Business is Me, I love what I do, and I don't ever fill as if I'm working, and surely I will not only put myself or my crew thru making the work fill heavy and not loved which at the end this is what long hours do, exhaust you, and never get the best of you.

I have my own way of working, and it is and will be so both now as an independent and later with one of the largest facilities this modernized world has ever seen.

Why?

Because I firmly believe that the quality of work is always more important then the quantity of it, the fact that I'm no longer a healthy person, (well actually I never was) makes me not been able to afford physically to do so, and I do have great respect for Humanity and their lives.

Oh and also...

Because we are Humans not F^%$#$ing ANIMALS!!
 
And this article is only discussing the people getting paid decent wages for their work. It gets even worse at the low, ultra low, and micro budget level. Sometimes you're working for a flat day rate, which means ZERO O.T. Less money means less crew which means everyone is working even harder and the physical toll is greater. An 8 hour day on these can be brutal, let alone 10 or 12 + hour days.
 
I even think 12 hours shooting a day is too much. We have 12 hours days from leaving home to returning home, with 10 hours of shooting mostly. But 14 hours of shooting is insane, for a commercial of a music video once in while it's oke. But for a feature or tv show, with 10-11 hour days i'm already exhausted, have no time for anything else, and the off time i'm worth nothing.
It's all about money and actually its ridiculous people accept it. A union should forbid going overtime more than 14 hours, and overtime hours should be 400% just so producers and studios will plan different. It's to cheap for them now, so they don't really care. If it will cost them a lot of money, then they will care, and start finding other solutions (like more shooting days, less shots, better planning)
 
David Mullen ASC said:
It's funny how when a producer tells a director that he has 12 hours max to get the work done, suddenly most directors figure out how to do it.
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Same here, with 10-hours work day. On most productions here in Italy, especially for tv series, producers would do ANYTHING to avoid extra hours, so directors usually comply (on a long shoot, 6 years ago, we had 9 extra hours in 156 days of shooting). Unfortunately, the quality of the final product is strongly influenced by insane scheduling, but that's another matter.
The problem is that, especially now, work is incredibly scarce, so if you're lucky enough to end up working on a feature film or a commercial, you just don't complain about the extra hours because that's money that gets in your pockets, and no one complains. The good thing is that the minimum turn-around time is applied most of the times.
 
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