1080P 4:4:4 via Build 16 playback

[David Battistella]

Correct, the 1080p on playback outputs are clean. That's true on existing builds for 720p on playback outputs too.

:construction: Note - these are true progressive outputs, there is no 1080 PsF support.

Panasonic, JVC and Cine-tal monitors have been verified to operate with our progressive 1080p.

That's a shame because 95% of our format requests are HDCAM SR.

Greg,

While I agree it would be a nice feature, I think it goes against everything that red is really about. Why would they create a camera designed for live recording to an SR deck?

If they had set out to do that, we would have a "frankenRED" instead of this wonderful system they have created.

People will catch up with RED, it's their job to blaze trails first and be compatible with tape formats second.

David

 

[Greg M]

David,
Not quite sure what you mean...I cant remember the last time someone requested D5. HDCAM SR is the standard delivery format for HD in the US.

Yes, its not a huge deal, it would just be nice to support the more popular format.

 

[David Battistella]

David,
Not quite sure what you mean...I cant remember the last time someone requested D5. HDCAM SR is the standard delivery format for HD in the US.

Yes, its not a huge deal, it would just be nice to support the more popular format.

greg,

I am not looking at it as a comparison to D5 I am looking from the perspective of recording to tape instead of to disk media. (which is what I think many people are thinking}

I guess what I mean is that I agree that HD cam SR is a great deliverable format, but I am not sure RED should be aiming to high at making it an aquisition format for their camera system.

Those who insist on tape might shoot genisis but should RED be going after the SR aquisition format? (rhetorical)

I have no beef with making the RED a compatible machine but I would hope that they devote resources toward their system instead of trying to fit inwith what exists and what there are many options for. IE: if I had an SR deck on set there are many systems I could shoot. I think RED might have a slightly different philosophy about this.

But that is for jim or Red to say.

David

 

[Greg M]

Yes, I agree. I would never consider recording to HDCAM for aquisition. I was really interested in the possibilities for quicker dailies delivery. Its really not worth stressing over, I'm too excited about the new camera we are getting to worry about fully supporting my deck for now.

 

[Chris Parker]

would the current model of the panasonic 1700W accept the progressive format?

 

[Mitch Gross]

Yes it does. So does the new 1760. Both available from Abel Cine.

 

[david farland]

Both at 720p however......

Nice monitors particularly for field work (battery).

But I guess the question now is what 1080p monitor would be idea for field work (12v)?

Dave

 

[Mitch Gross]

The Sony LMD 2450 is a true pixel-for-pixel 1920x1080 and can be battery powered (albeit 24v).

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

The Sony LMD 2450 is a true pixel-for-pixel 1920x1080 and can be battery powered (albeit 24v).

and looks pretty damn nice too!

 

[Jimmy Shen]

Both at 720p however......

Nice monitors particularly for field work (battery).

But I guess the question now is what 1080p monitor would be idea for field work (12v)?

Dave

Apart from the Sony mentioned above, another one would be the Cine-tal Cinemage, full HD, has built-in waveform monitor and vector scope, LUTs and can do 4:2:2 and 4:4:4, and it takes 24V DC. It was on display at the last RED Sydney usergroup meeting.

 

[Stuart English]

Sony monitor

Sony monitor

The Sony LMD 2450 is a true pixel-for-pixel 1920x1080 and can be battery powered (albeit 24v)

And should be compatible with our HD-SDI according to the tech specs

"Includes ....1080/50i, 1080/60i, 720/50p, 720/60p, 1080/24psf, 1080/25psf, 1080/24p, 1080/25p, 1080/30p .... VGA to WUXGA"

For studio use, we have also tested the JVC DT-V24L1DU 1080p monitor.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101631

 

[Mitch Gross]

The Phantom cameras have selectable outputs over HD-SDI, and 1080 progressive is on the option list. We have tested many monitors with it and all that are specced to take 1080p accepted this signal with no issue. I suspect that the same would be true with the 1080p signal out of RED One.

 

[Michael Brennan]

Both at 720p however......

Nice monitors particularly for field work (battery).

But I guess the question now is what 1080p monitor would be idea for field work (12v)?

Dave

I had the panasonic 1700 working with a prototype-ish 25p camera output last week. Dispaly says '25p" instead of "50i'
Of course a HDCAM S280 couldn't record the image.

For some it would be very usefull to record to existing tape machines.



Mike Brennan

 

[Mark Pedersen]

That's a shame because 95% of our format requests are HDCAM SR.

Yes! And I have one in my machine room that we use for mastering.

Question... WHY only true progressive and not 24 Psf?

On what decks are we supposed to master to besides Sony HDCAM?

D5? Give me a break.

We do a lot of corporate work that ends up in HDCAM. And we're certainly not alone.

M

 

[Michael Brennan]

recording p on sony kit

recording p on sony kit

Mark, you may find that SR will record the RED p output anyway.
This assumes that the RED output will be to the SMPTE standard.


Sure the SR or HDCAM deck it will disect the p frame it into psf in the machine and then back to p on replay but who cares about that!

The psf setting on Sony cameras mainly only provides a few flags that are not critical for recording.
This is why it is possible to record 25p or 30p when recorder is set to 50i or 60i respectively.

There may be some complications with flags with 23.98p though.

psf only ever exists on tape and like any other compression format it should be judged on its overall performance price availablity ect




Mike Brennan

 

[David Battistella]

Its really not worth stressing over, I'm too excited about the new camera we are getting to worry about fully supporting my deck for now.

Amen to that!


David

 

[M Most]

Mark, you may find that SR will record the RED p output anyway....Sure the SR or HDCAM deck it will disect the p frame it into psf in the machine and then back to p on replay ...

It does not (I just tried it).

 

[REDHKSC]

We will not support HDCAM SR and will not add 1080PsF later. We ONLY support true progressive formats.

Jim

Hello Jim,
good to meet you again here @RED User.net after my cold days in HELL !

May I ask you that :

Can FCP capture uncompressed 720P from RED one ? 8 or 10Bit 4:2:2 ? will it be better than any Pana HD Cameras ?

I believe so and Why ?

1) S35mm Sensor rated at ISO 320
2) PL 4K FOV ( Pleasing and Story telling optics views )

.....Judder ? compare to other 720P formats ( they are all in 720 50/60P though ) no Tele or window issues.

Stew.
HKG - CHINA

 

[Stuart English]

Monitor support

Monitor support

The Sony LMD 2450 is a true pixel-for-pixel 1920x1080 and can be battery powered (albeit 24v).

And confirmed to work with the RED-ONE 1080p 4:2:2 output (by one of our Alpha testers)

The eCinema monitors should also work with true progressive (P) too according to the manufacturer.

So thats 1080 P native monitor choices from JVC, Sony, eCinema and Cine-Tal at minimum (also RGB dual link for the latter)

Also the Panasonic monitors work with 1080 P too, but they are not 1080p native displays.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Hello Jim,
good to meet you again here @RED User.net after my cold days in HELL !

May I ask you that :

Can FCP capture uncompressed 720P from RED one ? 8 or 10Bit 4:2:2 ? will it be better than any Pana HD Cameras ?

I believe so and Why ?

1) S35mm Sensor rated at ISO 320
2) PL 4K FOV ( Pleasing and Story telling optics views )

.....Judder ? compare to other 720P formats ( they are all in 720 50/60P though ) no Tele or window issues.

Stew.
HKG - CHINA

I've been able to capture 720P at 59.94 from my Red. It can actually look pretty good. But keep in mind, it's a preview mode. There are some compromises. One thing I've run into is that white highlights tend to posterize, and I believe this is due to the 12 bit to 8 or 10 bit truncation. This is also a quick, rough debayer process. Also, you lose timecode relevance. But if you had a project that needed quick turnaround, this is one way to go.