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10 Scarlet Questions from Joseph Hutson

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An interchangeable lens Scarlet + OIS lenses would work for sure - but:
1. It's much more expensive than the fixed lens Scralet
2. Heavier
3. I would need 2 or 3 lenses to cover 28mm-224mm range of the single fixed Scarlet lens
4. The fixed-lens version will probably be better sealed.

This is still an option for me, but I will have to think hard about all +s and -s, when the interchangeable Scarlet comes out. And remember that I'm not a pro, I'm a "prosumer". I may shot a few instructional exercise movies with it, for my iPhone app GymGoal, but other than that, I need a good stills+video single device for myself, just as a hobby...
 
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Regarding 5 Megapixels - I'm totally fine with this. My current DSLR has 6 Megapixels. I don't ever print anything larger than 8x10" - and 8x10" pics print very nicely from 6M, even after cropping off around 30% of the original image. I resize the pic to 8x10 in Photoshop (with a plug-in) before printing. 90% of my prints are 5x7"

I did not actually realize that many people may see 5M as a no-go for a still camera, so maybe the lack of OIS in the fixed lens Scarlet is commercially OK for Red... not for me, unlucky me :-)
 
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Sergiy said:
Regarding 5 Megapixels - I'm totally fine with this. My current DSLR has 6 Megapixels. I don't ever print anything larger than 8x10" - and 8x10" pics print very nicely from 6M, even after cropping off around 30% of the original image. I resize the pic to 8x10 in Photoshop (with a plug-in) before printing. 90% of my prints are 5x7"

I did not actually realize that many people may see 5M as a no-go for a still camera, so maybe the lack of OIS in the fixed lens Scarlet is commercially OK for Red... not for me, unlucky me :-)
Click to expand...

Imagine all those photographers and all those images that suffered so much without image stabilization before it was invented! Amazing that they could do that. Really, is image stabilization that important? Maybe just don't shoot at 1/30 of a second while you are chasing a rampaging moose through the dense woods? And, I think the original version of image stabilization was called a tripod. :001_huh:

Of course, to each his own. We all have to make our own decisions. And to be honest, if my primary or only use of the camera was stills, I think I'd stick with Canon. (Now, THAT's where a 7D shines, IMHO.) I see Scarlet as a fabulous digital cinema camera and an "OK" still camera. Now as for Epic... if only I could afford it!
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Maybe just don't shoot at 1/30 of a second while you are chasing a rampaging moose through the dense woods?
Click to expand...

You're pretty close, but multiply by 3. I have 3 kids from 1 y.o. to 6 y.o. I have 2 decent tripods - yes, I used them before I got married and before we had kids :-)
 
Jarred Land said:
Your correct.. No Optical image stabilization, but instead a hybrid stabilization using the sensors in the camera for movement and then shifting the window.. its all metadata so the stabilization correction can be applied, or discarded.
Click to expand...

I said that back in early December, and earlier in this thread. But it's just my dream - RED made it real, and I'm sure I wasn't the first to see the possibility. It's pretty obvious when you think about it.

Is this so minor that it's NOT #21? If that's true, then #21 must really be big, cuz this is HUGE to me.

This is not like OIS in SLR lenses and can't possibly be. OIS corrections in SLRs occur at a high enough frequency that corrections take place continuously in a single capture - that's what mitigates the blur problem at slower shutter speeds, leads to problems which I won't list, and makes OIS more effective at slower shutter speeds.

Software based OIS would just use the motion data from the gyros, which would be in the metadata for a single FRAME. Even if the data sampling frequency was higher than the shutter speed, the software could not go back in time and make stabilization adjustments within an already captured frame.

So what could be done with that metadata? Plot the motion and vibrations from frame to frame and over longer periods of time and smooth out the motion by shifting the window.

Earlier, Jarred referred to feature 21 having a brain and being something that could be developed farther out. This kind of motion and vibration analysis is the kind of plug-in that could be developed farther out, and definitely could get into some very complex algorithms for vibration analysis, corrected "looks" etc., that could become a small cottage industry for some ambitious engineers who already know the basics.

So I think this is feature 21. And I think the idea of it being a "hybrid" is accurate. It's a hybrid between OIS and steadicam.

So Jarred, how right am I?
 
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Sergiy said:
An interchangeable lens Scarlet + OIS lenses would work for sure - but:....

4. The fixed-lens version will probably be better sealed.
Click to expand...

Do you mean sealed in terms of particles getting on the sensor..?
..if so...yes that could be an issue in favor of the fixed version.
 
Sergiy said:
You're pretty close, but multiply by 3. I have 3 kids from 1 y.o. to 6 y.o. I have 2 decent tripods - yes, I used them before I got married and before we had kids :-)
Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from. As I have two kids who are now much older than yours, let me suggest that you just accept the fact that life (not just photographs) will be a complete blur for quite some time! Enjoy! :laugh:
 
Sergiy said:
An interchangeable lens Scarlet + OIS lenses would work for sure - but:
1. It's much more expensive than the fixed lens Scralet
2. Heavier
3. I would need 2 or 3 lenses to cover 28mm-224mm range of the single fixed Scarlet lens
4. The fixed-lens version will probably be better sealed.

This is still an option for me, but I will have to think hard about all +s and -s, when the interchangeable Scarlet comes out. And remember that I'm not a pro, I'm a "prosumer". I may shot a few instructional exercise movies with it, for my iPhone app GymGoal, but other than that, I need a good stills+video single device for myself, just as a hobby...
Click to expand...

To be honest Sergiy, I think that unless you have higher very high aspirations for your hobby the Scarlet may not be best suited for you since it is designed as a professional cinema camera. The RAW processing and file sizes will add steps and cost to your process that you may not want to deal with. Your instructional movies could look beautiful though..
You may find that more Prosumer/consumer grade cameras have more of the kind of automated features that you would find helpful in your shooting situations. I suggest you wait and try it when it comes out and in the mean time get hold of some sample 3K footage from an MX chip RED one and play with it in REDCineX and within whatever you use to edit and finish normally just to understsand that side of working with the camera.


Meanwhile if you have more questions I suggest you start a new thread or head on over to Scarlet user, this thread is heading way off topic. :jacked:
 
Sergiy said:
An interchangeable lens Scarlet + OIS lenses would work for sure - but:
1. It's much more expensive than the fixed lens Scralet
2. Heavier
3. I would need 2 or 3 lenses to cover 28mm-224mm range of the single fixed Scarlet lens
4. The fixed-lens version will probably be better sealed.

This is still an option for me, but I will have to think hard about all +s and -s, when the interchangeable Scarlet comes out. And remember that I'm not a pro, I'm a "prosumer". I may shot a few instructional exercise movies with it, for my iPhone app GymGoal, but other than that, I need a good stills+video single device for myself, just as a hobby...
Click to expand...

Terry VerHaar said:
I see where you are coming from. As I have two kids who are now much older than yours, let me suggest that you just accept the fact that life (not just photographs) will be a complete blur for quite some time! Enjoy! :laugh:
Click to expand...

Too right! I've got 18 month old twins myself.

Ooops, :jacked: back on topic! :leaving:
 
Quentin_B said:
To be honest Sergiy, I think that unless you have higher very high aspirations for your hobby the Scarlet may not be best suited for you since it is designed as a professional cinema camera.
Click to expand...

This thread is about the fixed lens Scarlet. Why do you think that I'm too far off topic?

I have a prosumer DV camcorder (fixed lens, bought for $2K 7-8 years ago or so). I also have a DSLR.

This is why I waited for the fixed-lens Scarlet:
- I'm sick and tired of hauling a DSLR with 2-3 lenses + a camcorder.
- I always shoot all my stills in RAW. I'm a perfectionist. I like how I can adjust white balance and other stuff in RAW stills - lots of headroom for improving the image. I would love to have the same options for video.
- When I just bought that DV camcorder, I tried to film instructional exercise videos. That did not work, because the lens was to narrow - I could not go far enough to frame the scene, in a gym. Have you been in a gym? :-)

But I agree, there's not much to discus about this, so I shut up :-)
 
Philip Lipetz said:
Had a 7d, returned it due to overheating during extended shoots. Had to wait for it to cool down.

The Scarlet has extensive postimaging processing and that will create heat, and the Scarlet body is much more compact than Epic, One, etc. So I worry about heat limits. I see that Jarred says that the Scarlet is now working on a lab bench, and a lab bench does not suffer from being a small enclosed space. So I wonder. Would HATE to have camera fans on.
Click to expand...

The 7d overheats as its not designed to be in heavy video operation for long periods, the Scarlet will be designed to be ...... I assume!
 
Steve Wake said:
I said that back in early December, and earlier in this thread. But it's just my dream - RED made it real, and I'm sure I wasn't the first to see the possibility. It's pretty obvious when you think about it.

Is this so minor that it's NOT #21? If that's true, then #21 must really be big, cuz this is HUGE to me.

This is not like OIS in SLR lenses and can't possibly be. OIS corrections in SLRs occur at a high enough frequency that corrections take place continuously in a single capture - that's what mitigates the blur problem at slower shutter speeds, leads to problems which I won't list, and makes OIS more effective at slower shutter speeds.

Software based OIS would just use the motion data from the gyros, which would be in the metadata for a single FRAME. Even if the data sampling frequency was higher than the shutter speed, the software could not go back in time and make stabilization adjustments within an already captured frame.

So what could be done with that metadata? Plot the motion and vibrations from frame to frame and over longer periods of time and smooth out the motion by shifting the window.

Earlier, Jarred referred to feature 21 having a brain and being something that could be developed farther out. This kind of motion and vibration analysis is the kind of plug-in that could be developed farther out, and definitely could get into some very complex algorithms for vibration analysis, corrected "looks" etc., that could become a small cottage industry for some ambitious engineers who already know the basics.

So I think this is feature 21. And I think the idea of it being a "hybrid" is accurate. It's a hybrid between OIS and steadicam.

So Jarred, how right am I?
Click to expand...

Firstly I don't think this will be any kind of magic wand for stabilization. It's a nice feature to be sure and I'm sure the motion sensor data could be used in all sorts of ways to assist post work, whether it be as a helper for making optical tracking more accurate for stabilization or in helping compositors and other fx artists to match plates or 3D matchmove.

The windowing technique will be limited by the look around of that window as to the size of camera movement it can compensate for, individual frames will be accompanied by blur in the camera movement direction so may look odd when stabilized and you will need to compose shots with a little extra room to allow for this process to happen losing some of the advantages of 3K capture. For 2K and 1080 delivery this may be okay down to a point (one above those resolutions to allow for sharp scaled debayer). If 4K is the future as RED is planning, then you will want all that 3K image just to get an acceptable minimum resolution to uprez from.

As far as stabilization goes, what it may do is just help out that little bit so you can go a little bit further into that zoom range when handheld without it looking too shaky but you may want to be shooting with a slit shutter or higher frame rate to avoid the motion blur issue and make this look okay. This will be able to go quite a bit further on the 5K S35 especially for a 2K or lower delivery but it will still be of limited use at the longer focal lengths due to the greater amount of shake that becomes apparent.

All that said it probably isn't #21.

I had hoped that maybe #21 might have been that you could plug in a Scarlet brain to your computer and use it like a REDRocket for realtime debayer and output but all this talk of intelligent functionality excludes that. Can't wait to see what it really is. I suspect it's either something so clever they are waiting to see if they can actually pull it off before revealing it or something so useful and groundbreaking that they don't want the, now more aggressive, competition to get a a sniff of it ahead of time. Possibly a little of both.
 
On a similar note I think it would be great if REDCineX and RocketCineX had a warning when windowing/cropping in on footage to say when you have reached the limits of sharp scaling from the full rez debayer to achieve your given target output size after which point things start to look less sharp.

Perhaps even a box that you have to tick to go beyond that limit just to make people aware and reduce the kind of problems that can crop up in post when people unfamiliar with RED footage and the whole Bayer factor work with it and also as jus a general helper so you don't have to work it out yourself in your head.
 
Jarred Land said:
Heh heh.. yeah there is another half to the story. "Jackpot" came out at the same time.. fraternal twins. The names seemed fitting. There may of been a bit of whiskey involved.
Click to expand...

I don't know what's better, your cameras or their names...
 
Great answers! I was wondering about image stabilizing because I've become addictive to having it when shooting video lol. While waiting for the Scarlet I've been upgrading my gear. Last year the first thing I did was upgrade the tripod, I'm working on the audio gear right now and after the Scarlet ships I'll upgrade my computers.

Patrick, it is going to be hard to be a stealth shooter hold a hot pink camera , even if it is small : )
 
Sergiy said:
I'm also curious about image stabilization... I'm just a "prosumer", so I'm not in the same league as the most people here... but I guess Jim wanted to target prosumers as well.

I'm holding off buying a new camcorder, and I keep waiting for the fixed lens Scarlet.

I NEED some sort of image stabilization - be that mechanical in-lens one, or sensor shift, or in post production (based on the movement sensor data included into the red raw file). A prosumer camcorder without any image stabilization is pretty much nonsense these days.

What worries me that nobody from the Red team said anything about this subject.

Does this mean that there will be NO image stabilization? I hope that I am wrong.
Click to expand...

You could just buy a Canon IS lens.

edit: not sure how/if it works in for video though.
 
Just a feature request. Could you make a nice AF confirm beep for Scarlet. Something melodious rather than the beep you get on a Canon 1D.
 
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