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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

10 features and several tv shows...

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don´t kill arri...

this company is a great one.
red is great too.
we need both.
 
Arri will be around forever... great company.

Jim
 
Arri is awesome! Good lighting company in my mind, I have a bunch of them. Red doesn't make lights and probably never will.
 
I love the 235. not that I ever used it before. its just so nice to look at.
 
Hiya. The film Beyond a reasonable doubt is being shot on the RED camera in shrevport Louisiana. We are using 3 red cameras with ultra prime lenses. The support on this film is amazing and we have had a blast making a great film and really putting the camera to the test. Keep up the good work.

JSTL
 
Just heard from another Sony insider:
"Sony has no plans to compete with RED. It is a niche market and Sony is into mass marketing. Last year they sold $10 Billion worth of Video equipment. They can't be bothered with puny niche market for 35 mm movie cameras."
So, practically Jim has no competion in the horizon. Smooth sailing..
 
chuckt, thanks for that info. smooth sailing huh? movie camera market huh? sony has no interest huh? no competition huh?
How much do panasonic and/or sony pay you to run a disinformation campaign?
Are these kinds of campaigns paid out by the week, or is it a straight up flat fee for services rendered kind of a gig?
 
Chuck, I'm curious about this one. You can buy a RED system for $35k and a FCP rig suitable to cut it for about $5k. So you have $40k invested and you can make 10 years worth of movies with it.

Nerdy writer Joe Queenan tried to make a film using a film camera, amateur actors and the like. It cost him $65k. The film was never released because it was awful. If he had shot with RED he at least would have had $40k of equipment he could have sold for about what he paid for it (thanks to the scarcity of RED cameras on the market).

I'm a nerdy amateur like Joe. More a documentary type than a theatrical, so I'm more likely to dream of Scarlet. But the way I see it, the world is a far better place for nerdy amateur types who have $50k or so to blow than it used to be. Since it used to be that you would have one chance to buy the film and one chance to get the perfect take and now you can make as many films as you want by owning the equipment and not having to pay huge rental or film stock fees.

I am sympathetic to your sadness and emotion over film, but I think that represents a far better future.

With all due respect, maybe you should open your mind a crack?

D
 
chuckt said:
Just heard from another Sony insider:
"Sony has no plans to compete with RED. It is a niche market and Sony is into mass marketing. Last year they sold $10 Billion worth of Video equipment. They can't be bothered with puny niche market for 35 mm movie cameras."
So, practically Jim has no competion in the horizon. Smooth sailing..
Click to expand...

What about the ARRI F23?
What about Panavision's Genesis?
Silicon Imaging's camera?
Viper Film Stream?
Sony's F950?

I really don't think chuckt works for anyone - I think he wants to though.
DAMNIT! Did I just violate my own "The Bashing" ?
 
David Dennis said:
Chuck, I'm curious about this one. You can buy a RED system for $35k and a FCP rig suitable to cut it for about $5k. So you have $40k invested and you can make 10 years worth of movies with it.


D
Click to expand...

Just throwing this out there as well -

My RED package came in around $70K. New FCP station around $30K with bells and whistles and other hardware (I like whistles). My overall total spending came in around $140K.

An ARRI camera package with all bells and whistles (but no glass) is in a similar neighborhood. BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!
Before you can use this awesome film camera (and it is) you have to purchase film stock. And before you view your film, you have to develop it.
But we all know this.

So far - the RED is still the better choice simply based on numbers and ability.

But then again I am a RED nut. Albeit it a professional nut.
 
chuckt said:
Just heard from another Sony insider:
"Sony has no plans to compete with RED. It is a niche market and Sony is into mass marketing. Last year they sold $10 Billion worth of Video equipment. They can't be bothered with puny niche market for 35 mm movie cameras."
So, practically Jim has no competion in the horizon. Smooth sailing..
Click to expand...

The Titanic was also deemed unsinkable. You got to love it when history repeats itself.
 
It take 3 years for Sony to bring out a product. They thoroughly test the product and then bring out in large quantities for sale all over the world. (No deposit and wait 3 year schemes. )

Sony sell vertical systems: For example, when they bring out a 35 mm/4K camera, they will sell Camera, Lens, LCD, EVF, Sound systems, 4K Monitors, 4K projection equipment, Compression & Post production software, CF cards, 4K Tape decks and other Archiving tools, 4K transmission equipment, etc.
Sony will make every component for their products. That is why their components fit together like a glove to complete the whole production system. (You will not find loose nuts, high priced cables or chinsy components in SONY).

From what I gather, Sony has no plans, as of now, to compete with RED.
In the future, if RED sell 10s of 1000s of RED cameras, may be they will get into the field.

Now, they are concentrating on mass market items like Sony Ex1. (even though Sony make high end products, most of their profits come from low end consumer goods like EX1.). After selling 1 million, they will bring out its successor.
F23 and F35 are prototypes for R&D. They are not intended for mass market.

When Sony enter the market, they will dominate the market because of their superior quality and reputation.
Kodak came out with a 14 Mega pixel camera first. But, people preferred Canon 10 megapixel, higher priced camera. More pixels or lower price could not stand up to the better quality of Canon. And Kodak withdrew from the market. Being first in the market with 35mm/4K camera does not guarantee continued success for RED. But, for the next 3 years, RED will have smooth sailing, with no competition in the horizon. (Panasonic might introduce a competition for Sony Ex1. I have no concrete info about it at this time.)

On the other hand, Like Apple computer which started in a garage and killed off Main Frame computer manufacturers, RED could kill of Sony etc., if RED floods the market with low priced 35mm/4K camera. Look how "cheap Wii" beat High quality Sony PS3.
 
ChuckT -

I'm curious. Plenty of users have asked you who you are. What's your background etc.?
Any reason you don't answer?
I mean we only ask because you don't provide any real positive feedback/posts but merely bag on RED and the RED ONE camera. Why do you even frequent the posts?
 
quote: 'They will bring it out only after selling 1 million Sony Ex1'

who wants to bet whether Sony will be going back to tape on their next model? ...if they only had their noses in the same direction...

now that's the advantage of red. seeing what needs to be done. clearly, quickly and merciless. they're the real captain Kurtz. i think J likes that...
 
ChuckT how much sony gear do you own ?

They DO NOT make every bell and whistle, you should see how many things we had to make for our F23's. Also it is not fool proof I'm paying an exhorbitant amount right now to rent an SR deck because mine had a loose cleaning brush that tore up a master tape. Uh huh right...

Sony makes good gear but all I have to do is point to the wonderful catasrophe that is F23 high speed recording (ie there being only three srw1's) in LA that support going 60P 4:4:4.

I like sony, the F23 is extremely choice and its the current digital cinema camera with the most dynamic range. It looks good, but it has a different look then the red.

It really just comes down to presenting film makers with the choice.
 
There is no doubt, RED has revolutionized the digital movie camera business. $17.5K price make it possible for many aspiring DPs to experience the advantages of 35 mm lenses. High priced monopoly of Panavision and Arri has been broken. But, I think the multitudes of RED fans are a bit misguided in their assessment of RED.

Higher pixel count and Shallow DOF has been the main selling point of RED. Movies are basically story telling. Even though higher pixel counts and shallow DOF can contribute to the effectiveness of story telling, they are not the most important factors in movie making.

I was looking for a DP. Many came in with good 35mm film experience. One guy came in with only Canon XL experience. I said, "Canon with 1/3” sensor may not be appropriate for movies." He showed me a commercially successful theatrical movie that was made on a $6 Million budget, using Canon XL video camera (with 35 mm adaptor). When projected to a large screen, the picture was grainy. However, I forgot about the graininess after the first minute. It is anybody’s guess why would a $6 M movie be made on a Canon XL camera. The moral of the story is: it is the story and not the pixel count , that makes a good movie. Or, in other words, 4K should not be the primary concern of the movie maker.

I have looked at many award winning movies of old times. I did not see the famous shallow DOF or special effects in them. Some close ups. Some ordinary movie tricks. That is all. Again, the shallow DOF of 35 mm Lenses have been over emphasized by many aspiring DPs.
 
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