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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Value of a "dead end" Red One?

When Red makes the official announcement that EPIC is shipping, imagine the tizzy/panic/fear/elation that will sweep thru!
 
All I can really say is that R1 is a hell of a camera, but Epic and for many, very, very many, Scarlet, will be the absolute ultimate Image capture machine!!

Panic, yes by many for sure, but still no one in my mind will loose a single Dollar when selling their R1's ad when discounts and give away accessories when upgrading to Epic considered, no one looses anything.

Now for those that will not upgrade to Epic, but go strait to Scarlet, and need to sale their R1's, well they should do so quickly, as for them is all an other story!!
 
CJ Roy said:
Right now some people are selling their MX'd R1's for 30K+

That'll surely drop off when there's less need, but right now anyone selling them for 9k is getting screwed.
Click to expand...

CJ...

If your speaking of "body only" MX R1's sales...my personal experience is quite different than yours (significantly lower).

On fully "loaded" packages (with a variety of lenses and/or rig configs)...I too am aware of transactions in that range.

Certainly this discussion thread will be worth of a Harvard Business School case study on real option pricing in the very near future...

It is difficult to keep track on an "apples to apples" comparative basis.
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
Accessories have a different resale value all together, and the 9k is referred to the R1 body only, off course, as this is the actual difference in dollar value after the upgrade, and with it the seller will have lost nothing.
Click to expand...

Ketch...We have been noticing accessories are commanding about 50% of retail "new" price levels. Purely anecdotal -- for about a dozen recent transactions.
 
Jack Cooper said:
CJ...

If your speaking of "body only" MX R1's sales...my personal experience is quite different than yours (significantly lower).

On fully "loaded" packages (with a variety of lenses and/or rig configs)...I too am aware of transactions in that range.

Certainly this discussion thread will be worth of a Harvard Business School case study on real option pricing in the very near future...

It is difficult to keep track on an "apples to apples" comparative basis.
Click to expand...


Agree with you here, as there has not been such transaction that I'm aware of for just the R1 body, MX or not, unless some one is really desperate to get an MXed R1 NOW, and has a Epic path, being the R1 an extremely low number, Below 100, and this individual paying might yet believe in the OLD RED, way of approaching Delivery schedule and processing capacity in Shipping, I reassure you that in my honest and analyzed opinion for what RED was and RED is, things have changed dramatically, and some one will find having paid a stiff premium just to get their Epic one week or two earlier then the rest of the Stage 2 Reduser, no matter of when they did tucked delivery of their R1's. (Before October 30 off course.
 
If anybody was seriously interested in selling their R1-M (body only) for $9000...I would be pretty tempted. I don't expect non R1 owners to have access to the second gen Red cams for at least 12 months so I think people are undervaluing the R1-M (and certainly R1-MX) for the next 12-18 months.
 
Andrew Thomas said:
If anybody was seriously interested in selling their R1-M (body only) for $9000...I would be pretty tempted. I don't expect non R1 owners to have access to the second gen Red cams for at least 12 months so I think people are undervaluing the R1-M (and certainly R1-MX) for the next 12-18 months.
Click to expand...
Let's hope you're right !
I think it all really depends on how fast they'll be able to deliver Epics and Scarlets, and get the MX upgrades done.

People who don't own a Red One probably won't be able to buy an Epic until next year, I guess. I don't know about Scarlet, I don't think they announced if actual Red One owners would be given priority on Scarlets too, or if they would be immediately available to everyone.
 
Red Price

Red Price

Hi,
I doubt there is any other product in this world that gives you the price and performance R1 has given.

There are so many people around the world who have invested their hard earned money into HDCAMS', Varicam etc and many of them have not been able to recover their investments(lot of them are available at peanut prices today at ebay)
As a post production rental equipment house I think the option RED has given all the R1 users is just out of this world.No company had the 'balls' to give such a option.

So why are we worried about the value of RED . I think it is VALUELESS.
In near future if value of Red falls to 0 then keep it a savonier to remind you that you were part of history that rocked the film camera market.

Harcharan
 
Andrew Thomas said:
If anybody was seriously interested in selling their R1-M (body only) for $9000...I would be pretty tempted. I don't expect non R1 owners to have access to the second gen Red cams for at least 12 months so I think people are undervaluing the R1-M (and certainly R1-MX) for the next 12-18 months.
Click to expand...

Andrew: I know people that are willing to sell R1 for $10,000 (i.e. sweeten the pot a little bit over pure breakeven) and might consider $9000.
 
Tim Morten said:
Definition of "dead end": not eligible for trade-in (ie - Stage 2 has been exercised).

Stage 2: $19500 (get Epic-x, keep your R1)

Stage 3: $10500 (get Epic-x, trade-in your R1)

Not factoring in the difference in Epic-X accessories between the stages, and not factoring in any MX upgrading on the R1, it seems like a "dead-end" Red One is worth $9000.

Thoughts?

- Tim
Click to expand...

Tim? Are you still trying to buy a RED for 9K including accessories?
 
A R1 that gets the Monstro sensor upgrade should be around until bacteria breaks it down.

Of course it'll have more skew than an epic fitted with a monstro, but skew hasn't been a huge issue for me so far, and anything with 13.5 stop of DR is a viable film alternative.

Of course the price will drop as Scarlets appear.
 
R. Gonzales said:
Tim? Are you still trying to buy a RED for 9K including accessories?
Click to expand...

Never was... I've been a Red owner for years. I actually started the thread because I've been considering selling my rig to be able to do Stage 2 instead of Stage 3 (and get my Epic sooner).

I corresponded with someone who was looking to save money by buying a "dead end" Red, and they claimed that multiple people had offered to sell their R1 body for $8500 to $9500, which was surprising to me. Having done the math, I guess I can understand that someone might make that decision, but I tend to believe that "market" value on a Red One, even without the Epic upgrade option, is higher than that.

I may test the waters and list my rig for sale, and see what kind of offers I get.

Cheers,
Tim
 
Ive been looking at this option and many people have been willing to sell in the $8500-$9500 range but almost all (except maybe 2) with the caveat that ownership doesnt change until their epic arrives.
 
michael zaletel said:
What I don't think people yet realize is that the RED ONE even with the Mysterium Sensor will still be good enough 20 years from now to shoot a feature film on. Nothing (besides a film camera) made in the last 20 years has ever had that same future potential.

Think about it.

-michael zaletel
Click to expand...

Michael,

again totally agree with you.

R1MX is a great value for any R1 user future.

Can beat easy any of competition digital camera system in the next 5-10 years.
 
Scarlet is going to hurt the dead end Red market. I am guessing once S35 Scarlet is shipping a non-MX R1 i going to be worth about $5000. An MX R1 will be worth about $9000. If I have to buy a camera, why buy an old non-MX R1 with slow boot times and over heating and all the little things, when I could by a brand new S35 Scarlet with all those issues changed and it comes with an MX sensor? The only thing the R1 gives me is more frame rates.

Dusty
 
Dustin Cross said:
If I have to buy a camera, why buy an old non-MX R1 with slow boot times and over heating and all the little things, when I could by a brand new S35 Scarlet with all those issues changed and it comes with an MX sensor?
Click to expand...
Agreed.
The only thing the R1 gives me is more frame rates.
Click to expand...
And those framerates are in cropped sensor mode, not in full 4K resolution. According to current specs, the S35 Scarlet will be able to acieve 72fps bursts in full 5K resolution.
 
Jack Cooper said:
CJ...

If your speaking of "body only" MX R1's sales...my personal experience is quite different than yours (significantly lower).

On fully "loaded" packages (with a variety of lenses and/or rig configs)...I too am aware of transactions in that range.

Certainly this discussion thread will be worth of a Harvard Business School case study on real option pricing in the very near future...

It is difficult to keep track on an "apples to apples" comparative basis.
Click to expand...

some accessories, no glass. Base package, mx sensor.
 
Tim Morten said:
Never was... I've been a Red owner for years. I actually started the thread because I've been considering selling my rig to be able to do Stage 2 instead of Stage 3 (and get my Epic sooner).

I corresponded with someone who was looking to save money by buying a "dead end" Red, and they claimed that multiple people had offered to sell their R1 body for $8500 to $9500, which was surprising to me. Having done the math, I guess I can understand that someone might make that decision, but I tend to believe that "market" value on a Red One, even without the Epic upgrade option, is higher than that.

I may test the waters and list my rig for sale, and see what kind of offers I get.

Cheers,
Tim
Click to expand...



Yes I can also confirm on this, that several R1 owners have offered their R1's some of which really low number, for close to 9k some a bit higher, in the 12 to 14k so that they could also do the Stage 2 instead of stage 3, so they were willing to sale their R1's for few K below what RED would credit them for with Stage 3 just so that they could get their Epic-X sooner.

But we have decided to actually get two R1's with the upgrade path as well, so that we will then have two S3D rigs, when including my two Epic-X already reserved.

Many offers of R1's with the Epic path available are coming from those that wish to actually go to Scarlet, today alone I got seven offers, he he, I guess Jim's post of a "BIG Scarlet announcement in mid MAY, must have put them to the move hoping that there could also be a Reservation starting for the Scarlet.
 
Michael Hastings said:
How about one with a legal birger Canon EF electronic mount and Impero. Any takers at say $12,500?
Click to expand...

Question: does it make any difference whatsoever if I have an MX right now and put a Birger on it? I understand that there is a 90-day warranty on the sensor upgrade itself. But aside from that, is there anything stopping me from putting a Birger on my camera if we plan to go Stage 2 and sell the MX immediately?

BTW, I believe that everyone who currently has a Red One should MX it before selling it. Red M aint gonna be of much use for much longer, IMO.
 
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