ABCs of renting out a RED One

[Petri Teittinen]

Hi all,

I received my R1 in late December 2009. I didn't buy it with rentals in mind, and the idea still fills me with dread. Unfortunately I got laid off in mid-January and my meager savings are draining out at an alarming rate. Instead of selling the camera to pay the mortgage, I figured I might be able to make some money by renting the camera out to local productions.

I know absolutely nothing about camera rentals however, so I'm hoping some more experienced folks could reply to this post and "show me the ropes", so to speak. A list of the most important things to keep in mind would be great.

Thank you!

cheers,
.: petri

 

[C.H.Haskell]

Hey Petri,

You can start right here on REDuser by posting in the marketplace section of the forum
http://reduser.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Post your camera package and everything that comes with it and be sure to include your location and contact info.
I would say the average professional RED package (including sticks, Mattebox, followfocus, media etc) goes for about 1200 a day and generally rental houses charge 3 days for 1 week or 1 day for the weekend.

Try not to lowball yourself, always get proof of insurance, be fair, and kind and you should do ok. If your worried about your gear you can always try to get on the job as a RED tech or a DIT. Best of luck.

Haskell

 

[Paolo Tinari]

Jeff Killgroe wrote something deep about it but i cant find the post as the history is limited.
Jeff, if you listen to us show us your presence

 

[jimhare]

Hi Petri,

Yes, renting is a bit daunting, especially if you have an emotional attachment to your camera (like we all do!)

First and foremost, make sure that your insurance covers rental. Then, if at all possible, make sure anyone you rent to has insurance to cover it anyway.

You may find, depending on where you are, that you have to charge a bit less than rental houses simply because you can't offer the same level of support, options, and back up capability, so you can only compete on price.

As for me, I ONLY rent to close friends, and it's somewhat rare that I do. So far so good, made a bit of cash, but not sure it outweighs the worry! ;-)

Best of luck

 

[ericyoung]

Make sure your insurance covers FRAUD as well as theft, etc.

When some guy hires your kit with false ID and even pays a deposit, but disappears afterwards, it isn't covered under theft as it's technically fraud!

 

[D Fuller]

I'd recommend downloading and reading - really - reading a rental contract from an established rental company. There's a bunch of that sort of thing at Rule.com, a very good Boston rental company. Rental companies deal with a lot of issues that you are likely never to have thought of, and their policies have evolved for good reasons.

Good luck to you. I hope it allows you to keep the camera and make some new business connections.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

First of all, consider your local market. How many RED Ones are already available? Do you have enough of a RED kit to actually be worth renting? ...For enough of a rental fee to justify people abusing it? You will want good insurance and will also need to get proper insurance certificates from those who rent your gear. There's a lot of people in your position or indie shooters who bought the camera and a basic kit and think they'll just rent it out when it's not being used. It's hard to rent out a camera, especially a small kit, and even more so if you don't already have a bunch of contacts for people who may rent it. In markets that are already saturated, a lot of undercutting is going on.

Read these two threads:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32533

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39479

Whatever you do, make sure you have proper insurance coverage for yourself and your gear. Have a well-written rental agreement that covers terms of damage and responsibility.

There is also sound advice in this thread right here. Consider your options carefully and if you really want other people beating up your RED One for what will probably barely cover general maintenance, insurance costs and your time. I'm not trying to say don't do it, but depending on your local market and your existing contacts, it may very well not be worth it. All the major markets are flooded with cheap RED Ones. In LA you can rent a basic RED kit for not much more per day than an HVX200. I'm really surprised there haven't been more for sale with the weak economy and the RED One body holding it's value at $17.5K for trade-in.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Oops, I apparently posted in the wrong forum - sorry about that, mods.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Thank you so very much all who posted such good advice; rest assured it's much appreciated.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Make sure your insurance covers FRAUD as well as theft, etc.

When some guy hires your kit with false ID and even pays a deposit, but disappears afterwards, it isn't covered under theft as it's technically fraud!

most important..a friend experienced exactly this, 100 000 flushed to the toilet.
in germany there are maybe 2-3 insurances that cover this and you have to pay 25% of the damage (max. 5000- 10 000 depending on contract), with a regular insurance you pay max 500 of the damage,
and you should see where your equipment is covered, mine is covered for europe only(including swiss, norway etc), didnt happen to shoot outside, but if, its easy to get an insurance for this special case

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

One other important thing to remember about insurance, and this applies pretty much all over the world, is it's not always guaranteed. For your own gear with your own policies, you are usually secure as long as your policy extends to cover certain thing; theft, damage, fraud, etc.. However, when a customer rents your gear and presents you with an insurance certificate. Even if it's completely valid, you still have to file a claim in the event of damage and often work at it diligently to receive compensation.

For within the USA/Canada, when a client has a certificate of insurance issued to you, make sure that you or your company are listed on the certificate as the additional insured party. Make sure it has a clause or statement that guarantees full coverage for rental equipment.

Find a good insurance agent or broker who will work with you to make sure you have all the coverage you need. And make sure your own policy will cover all your equipment in case of theft or fraud. The insurance supplied by your rental customer is just an added security blanket and should never be looked upon as adequate coverage, or even coverage at all. In cases of theft or fraud, this insurance supplied by your customer will most likely not cover any of your gear, if the customer is the one who committed the fraud or theft.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

its obvious, but get a copy of the I.D. of the person whose renting, and the client has to make sure how the equipment is stored while shooting, most isurances want a guarded lot or that the stuff stays at home, car and hotel rooms are tricky though, but some do cover it.

last year we shot at an airport and all of the equipment ( 4fully rigged REDS two big Optimos, some UPs etc. gear worth half a million) stayed in a room at the airport, insurance wanted that we change the keys and are the only ones who have the keys...we did communicate teh situation beforehand and it was no problem to get it covered.

ah, and it should cover transport damages.

 

[Steve Das]

its obvious, but get a copy of the I.D. of the person whose renting...

Yes but how do you know it's not a fake ID..

And as people have said if someone walks
off with your camera your insurance will consider
that fraud and not theft. Depending on what
country you're in it may be an acceptable risk.

But in the U.S. especially Los Angeles there are
just too many thieves to deal with. Better
to let the pros deal with rentals unless you're
always going to be on set w/ your equipment.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Yes but how do you know it's not a fake ID..

And as people have said if someone walks
off with your camera your insurance will consider
that fraud and not theft. Depending on what
country you're in it may be an acceptable risk.

But in the U.S. especially Los Angeles there are
just too many thieves to deal with. Better
to let the pros deal with rentals unless you're
always going to be on set w/ your equipment.

if your insurance includeds fraud, you still have to prove that you TRIED your best and did get a copy, if its fake, the insurance will still cover the damage, if fraud is included in the insurance and you have no copy of the I.D., you are making a mistake wich can lead to...well insurance not paying.

rental ist just how to know how to get your money, no matter what happens


dont know the situation in LA honestly, maybe there i wouldnt do it too.

 

[Steve Das]

...dont know the situation in LA honestly, maybe there i wouldnt do it too.

The official unemployment rate in LA is like 12%..in reality it's more like
20%. People go around digging up copper wire and plants and trees
out of people's yards. If they could get their hands on a $30,000
camera package I am sure they would take off with it...

Assume people renting in L.A. are only renting out to established
production companies with a history or documented indie/studio
productions. In which case the fraud issue is out of the equation.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

The official unemployment rate in LA is like 12%..in reality it's more like 20%. People go around digging up copper wire and plants and trees out of people's yards. If they could get their hands on a $30,000 camera package I am sure they would take off with it...

Let me tell an anecdote about this country I live in. I went to McD to pick up something to eat and was waiting patiently for my turn at the drive-in window... when a guy in a red Nissan parked his car in a parking spot next to the drive-in lane, got out of the car, closed the car door and walked in the McD. He did not turn off the car's engine, nor did he lock the car's doors.

I saw him walk to the counter, place an order, then sit at a table and eat. All this time his car was idling outside with its doors open. Once he was done eating he calmly walked out, entered his car and drove away. (And yeah, the drive-in lane took forever.)

This does not mean that I would trust just anyone with my R1. Luckily this country is so small that everyone working in movies knows everyone else working in movies, so it should be pretty easy to place a call or two to verify anyone's identity and background.

Having said that, I'm still leery of renting my R1 out...

 

[Michael McLaughlin]

Petri, the dude was either a cop or a drug dealer.

Or...

It was a guy who wanted/wished his car to be stolen.

 

[hans de vries]

Luckily this country is so small that everyone working in movies knows everyone else working in movies, so it should be pretty easy to place a call or two to verify anyone's identity and background.

doesn't this also imply that there won't be a lot of people around who want to get their hands on a red?

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Petri, the dude was either a cop or a drug dealer. Or... It was a guy who wanted/wished his car to be stolen.

Actually, I think he only wanted to keep the car warm. It was -25 degrees Celsius out there; that's -13 Fahrenheit.

 

[Petri Teittinen]

doesn't this also imply that there won't be a lot of people around who want to get their hands on a red?

Unfortunately yes. And there are ~20 RED Ones available in rental houses already over here so plenty of competition around.