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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Thoughts and Tips responses here...

ISO 2000 is definitely great , but I still found RED footage's sometimes looks like video . I am sure its not a lighting issue , but I believe that most digital cameras regardless of its resolution or ISO still can not meet the motion characteristic of film , I am not sure if the electrical shutter is behind that because I see cameras like Viper Thomson or Arri D-21 doesn't have this issue at all . I totally believe is a great camera , Let me know if there is anyway to go around this video feel because the dynamic feel of film to me is more critical than Resolution especially when it comes to drama and feature film .
 
Matthew Cernohorsky said:
How is the blue channel clipping in this image? The blue channel isn't even touching the right side of the histogram? Sorry but I just don't get it...

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1264035800.png
Click to expand...

The white block on the right indicates it is clipping... and that is happening in the X. It is subtle, but enough to demonstrate the point. If you need a more easy to see example... let me know. The point is... WB before grading in RGB.

Jim
 
Absolutely!!!

If someone could find a way to conform and batch "fit width or height", we could benefit instantly from each new improvement.

...because, the improvements are too good, CAN'T GO BACK... :)

can't wait for SDK each time...:)


please...PLEASE :)

EDIT: Oooops...the "fit width" or height exists!!!! THANKS!!!!!

Antoine
 
Jannard said:
The white block on the right indicates it is clipping... and that is happening in the X. It is subtle, but enough to demonstrate the point. If you need a more easy to see example... let me know. The point is... WB before grading in RGB.

Jim
Click to expand...

Ok. I see that, but shouldn't the blue channel still touch the right side? Also, you said that the FLUT control will not clip the image if it is not already clipped when shooting RAW, however in REDCine, I am able to clip a not previously clipped image with the FLUT control...? What's up with that?
 
Matthew Cernohorsky said:
Ok. I see that, but shouldn't the blue channel still touch the right side? Also, you said that the FLUT control will not clip the image if it is not already clipped when shooting RAW, however in REDCine, I am able to clip a not previously clipped image with the FLUT control...? What's up with that?
Click to expand...

Matthew... I'll assume for the moment you aren't just trying to cause trouble. I have no idea what you are doing in REDCINE-X Build 84, but I can't duplicate what you are saying.

Jim
 
For people wanting to conform using the new RedCine-X 84, this is what I'm looking at doing for a project in the near future.

First, use this tool to consolidate all used R3D files in an XML from FCP to a single directory.

http://www.michaelcinquin.com/tools/red/consolidate

I've used this before and it works great.

Then, load up that directory, and CC everything to a one-light in Redcine-X 84. Then take your original FCP xml, load it into Clipfinder, and reconform to your new QT files as normal.

I'm thinking I'll break up the XMLs by scene to make it easier on myself in RedCine-X 84. This may not be perfect, but it's a route to go for now.

Have to give props to Michael and Hans for making great free apps. Rubber Monkey can do some of the same things if you have a license.

Tim
 
Clipping can be a tricky subject - there's strict mathematical clipping and then there's practical clipping.

FLUT doesn't allow anything that is not actually clipped (ie 12bit value = 4095) to actually clip. They will get crushed up towards 4095, might actually reach 4094, might in extreme circumstances get quantized up to 4095, but that's it.

In practical terms, if you crush the highlights way way up, any detail left in them, assuming they are un-clipped and have detail to begin with, will get diminished, just like what happens in film's soft clip knee. The histogram and right clip meter in the histogram are "practically" oriented. There are 9437184 pixels in your 4k image, and if just a few are clipping, then the bar on the histogram that represents that will be very very short, and probably not visible, even though it does exist.

With visual display of data over such a range of values, some manner of scaling should be used to ensure you can see a reasonable representation of that data, which means unless clipping is "significant", and the white bar at the right is to help you see that, you may have small amounts of clipped image that the histogram doesn't reflect. This is perfectly correct and normal as if it works the other way, you end up vastly under-exposing the image to save those odd pixels and ruin the over-all effect.

Hope that explains the histogram monitoring methodology for you.

Graeme
 
Dustin Cross said:
As soon as Redline & the SDK supports this it will be easy.

Dusty
Click to expand...

Dustin,

I know!

My point is that it would be SO USEFULL not having to wait for the SDK each time there is such wonderfull improvement :)

Antoine
 
Graeme Nattress said:
With visual display of data over such a range of values, some manner of scaling should be used to ensure you can see a reasonable representation of that data, which means unless clipping is "significant", and the white bar at the right is to help you see that, you may have small amounts of clipped image that the histogram doesn't reflect. This is perfectly correct and normal as if it works the other way, you end up vastly under-exposing the image to save those odd pixels and ruin the over-all effect.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. So the tiny white bar signifies that there's some clipping going on, but it's not significant (probably some tiny specular highlights?) and can safely be ignored. If it was significant, the histogram would be squished to the left a bit, and there'd be a space to the right of the blue mountains, and a blue spike, right? And the bar is white whether irregardless of what channel is clipping insignificantly, but Jim knew it was the blue channel that was clipping by common sense. Do I understand it correctly?

(Apologies if this is in the manual and I missed it. I won't be offended with an RTFM response if so ;) The fact that the owner and engineers of a company are doing tech support is crazy, and I'm sure unappreciated by none.)
 
All clipping is a sign to be careful and shouldn't be ignored, but as you say, for small speculars with no detail beyond their shape, it's pretty reasonable to let them be at clip.

Graeme
 
Jannard said:
Matthew... I'll assume for the moment you aren't just trying to cause trouble. I have no idea what you are doing in REDCINE-X Build 84, but I can't duplicate what you are saying.

Jim
Click to expand...

Actually, I can, but ONLY when I have Color Space set to Rec 709. So it's really a non issue for me.

While I'm here, what's the deal with Wave? It's working somewhat OK with build 84. Is this just a pure fluke, or is Tangent actively working with Red?

Another thanks for this build and FLUT

I should mention I can only clip images on the high end with FLUT in Rec 709, not the low end, and it's very minor clipping
 
Last edited:
Stuart Smith said:
While I'm here, what's the deal with Wave? It's working somewhat OK with build 84. Is this just a pure fluke, or is Tangent actively working with Red?
Click to expand...



Oh, it's very intentional. And quite wonderful! Just got my Wave yesterday, working with Redcine-X, what a godsend!

Bugreport:

When I'm using my Master lift, gamma and gain controls (the scrollwheels) they do not register in the image until I move the corresponding Differential lift, gamma or gain control (the trackballs).
 
Morning Glory said:
Oh, it's very intentional. And quite wonderful! Just got my Wave yesterday, working with Redcine-X, what a godsend!

Bugreport:

When I'm using my Master lift, gamma and gain controls (the scrollwheels) they do not register in the image until I move the corresponding Differential lift, gamma or gain control (the trackballs).
Click to expand...

Exact same problem I have with it, thats why I was wondering if it was just a fluke. Not tested the mapper yet, the initial setup is seriously lacking some controls. maybe I'll have time to really explore with it in RedCine on Mon
 
Graeme Nattress said:
All clipping is a sign to be careful and shouldn't be ignored, but as you say, for small speculars with no detail beyond their shape, it's pretty reasonable to let them be at clip.

Graeme
Click to expand...

This is the problem I found when first moving across to digital. Film is a bit more forgiving as they is more of a fall off on both ends of the dynamic range. Digital is far less forgiving. Knowing your range - knowing your tool I guess is the key. This is where Red comes up trumps because you are more likely to know the ins and outs of kit you own than something you only have access to on set or tests.
 
That's right enough Tim - owning a camera gives you the freedom to experiment, and with the RED, in real time to see how your exposure decisions effect the image.

Film is indeed more forgiving in highlights due to it's less than abrupt roll-off in the highlights, but even that has an end where no more detail can be pulled back out. The rolloff in the shadows on film actually, I think, hinders it's flexibility in the shadows, rather than helps it though.

Graeme
 
Graeme,

Thanks for FLUT, New Gamma and Space. Again and again you make something spectacular.

Just for ask something, what do you use to compensate FLUT to push blacks down again? In redcine I mean. Gamma? exposure?

Just another quest, You have time to add FLUT in COLOR Red Tab?? Pleeeeaaase ;-) (kidding)

Thanks again, for this amazing days.
 
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