"I just saw Avatar" Thread

[Alan Zarnegar]

I thought it was a little bit insulting to the Na'vi to insinuate that they were even more xenophobic than the Humans.

There was no reason the Na'vi would stop being Na'vi because they adopted superior technology to defend their culture.

Two things:
1) Some of the points you bring up are quite sound and interesting, but to say the Na'vi are more xenophobic than the humans seems a bit off. Given the fact that the Na'vi were aware of the Avatar program and that the Avatars were acknowledged as "demons in false bodies", I would say that the Humans (more specifically the RDA) are portrayed as the more xenophobic race. Sure the Na'vi were cautious with letting the Avatars into hometree and into their culture, but at the same time, you must also look at the fact that the Na'vi began to learn English as they warmed up to Dr. Augustine's school. The only humans who knew Na'vi were the Avatar drivers, and it didn't seem like anyone else was going to learn it. Furthermore, it didn't seem that the humans really wanted anything from the Na'vi besides the deposits of unobtanium. Humans came to Pandora with one over-arching goal in mind: the extraction of an extremely valuable material. They viewed the Na'vi as an alien race interfering with their goals, nothing more.

2) The Na'vi would actually stop being Na'vi if they did adopt human technology. Remember, literally everything they eat, ride, create, etc. is provided to them by Eywa. The Na'vi are bound to both Pandora, and all of its constituents (i.e. fauna, flora, and so on). They believe the energy of Eywa is borrowed by each living thing, and when something dies, the borrowed energy is returned to Eywa. It is a cycle or, to put it more bluntly, a "Circle of Life". It is all that they know, so even thinking to use something not supplied by Eywa may be outside their realm of thinking and understanding. Saying there is no reason to not adopt human technology is a statement clouded by our way of thinking and understanding.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I'm going to hold my ground on the Na'vi being more Xenophobic.

Name one Na'vi who learned anything human except for English? You had the Avatar drivers who were honestly interested in learning Na'vi culture, language and ideas. The only way the Na'vi would accept a Human into their midst is by completely discarding everything human.

Collisions of cultures just as often produce an explosion of art and new ideas in both cultures as they do wars. I was disappointed that the Na'vi were portrayed as seemingly completely closed and stagnant as a culture. Maybe they could have adopted some Oakley flying glasses. The most honest portrayal in my opinion was Michelle Rodriguez's character who fought on behalf of the Na'vi while still retaining some humanity.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I'm going to hold my ground on the Na'vi being more Xenophobic.

The most honest portrayal in my opinion was Michelle Rodriguez's character who fought on behalf of the Na'vi while still retaining some humanity.

This wasn't the Starship Enterprise, on a peaceful mission seeking out new life and new civilizations. It was an invader, a mining company, whose tool was a military-industrial complex and whose goal was to plunder.

Her major transformation came about because her eyes were opened to the destruction, exploitation, and cruelty of her own species. Prior to that, she was a shill. A compassionate spy working for da man, whose sole motive for inhabiting Pandora was the exploitation of a mineral.

Discussions of whose culture is "more xenophobic" can't just ignore the motive, intent, and threatening behavior of the invading party and that impact on the indigenous species.

 

[ericyoung]

My only complaint about the Native American analogy was that it wasn't even accurate.

I felt the Na'vi were a bit backwards which is an unfortunate symptom that even Native American Apologists have picked up from the propaganda of the day against Native populations. When the Europeans and the Native Americans met neither culture was completely closed to the other. There was a cultural and technological exchange. The Native Americans didn't shun everything European, for example the horse comes to mind as an example of an exchange that vastly changed some native cultures. Nor did the Europeans shun Native American political ideas and medicine. Many of our founding fathers had high praise for native political concepts and attempted to replicate them...

But that's assuming Cameron wanted to exclusively reference Native Americans. Also the horse isn't a great example as it's obvious the Na'vi didn't need to adopt any of the human modes of transport. And it's stated explicitly at one point that there's nothing the Na'vi need or want from the humans.

...I thought it was a little bit insulting to the Na'vi to insinuate that they were even more xenophobic than the Humans. I would have liked to have seen Sam's character teach the Na'vi a thing or two other than just becoming the best Na'vi ever to live. Fire arms and explosives would have been a great starting point. After all the ground battle was extremely slanted. There was no reason the Na'vi would stop being Na'vi because they adopted superior technology to defend their culture...

And why would humans give the Na'vi firearms and explosives if they knew they might want to invade rather than befriend? And why would the Na'vi want or trade for arms and explosives if they have felt no overt threat from the humans up to this point? Their native weapons were more than adequate for their food hunting needs, while the encounter with the Pandoran "wolves" illustrated that they didn't kill even a dangerous predator unless they absolutely had to in self defence or in this case to defend a human hybrid.

...It was mostly those who wanted to destroy Native American culture who attempted to portray them as so backwards that they couldn't understand or adopt modern technology. It also worked against Cameron's message that we're being destroyed by our technology. We aren't going to give it all up and move to the woods. That simply isn't going to happen. A far more useful and timely message would be one which teaches us how to use technology without losing our humanity.

Cameron clearly does not think the Na'vi are backward. Human reliance on technology is our Achiles heel as it requires constant or increasing extraction of finite resources, whereas the Na'vi live in a sustainable way on their planet. If they hold to that way of life, what need have they for "modern" technology?

 

[Stuart Hooper]

Actually I think tech might help us become less destructive to our planet over time. For those of us that don't have ethernet jacks in our tails, that is.

 

[R.ChilD]

I dont think the naavi were xenophobic, they were just concerned about the proliferation / threat to their existence. I think its limiting to think in terms of native Americans to the British. A tribe was recently discovered in Brazil and they made all attempts / gestures to ward of intruders, so this phenomenon is true not just in terms of Native Americans but unadulterated indigenous population across the globe

 

[Mike Yonts]

So, how many of you noticed the Wilhelm scream in Avatar?

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

A tribe was recently discovered in Brazil and they made all attempts / gestures to ward of intruders, so this phenomenon is true not just in terms of Native Americans but unadulterated indigenous population across the globe

A lot of these "discovered" tribes already have an awareness of how indigenous populations have been harmed and decimated by contact with modern ways and have taken steps to protect their culture and traditions and ways of life from these impacts. See Alan Ereira's "From the Heart of the World" - for a truly fascinating glimpse into a Colombian tribe that chooses to protect their way of life through deliberate isolation.

Those of you who found the spiritual elements in "Avatar" meaningful, in particular, should have a look at this...

 

[R.ChilD]

See Alan Ereira's "From the Heart of the World" - for a truly fascinating glimpse into a Colombian tribe that chooses to protect their way of life through deliberate isolation.

Those of you who found the spiritual elements in "Avatar" meaningful, in particular, should have a look at this...

true and I found those Colombian tribesmen fascinating, I dont mean to derail the thread but I am always surprised how those tribesmen preserve their way of life, the year is 2010, I wonder if they will still be left untouched and treated like the world's next anti-deforestation project by 2900!! I guess that might be another message from AVATAR also!! JC is a genius!

 

[ericyoung]

Actually I think tech might help us become less destructive to our planet over time. For those of us that don't have ethernet jacks in our tails, that is.

Maybe, but will it happen in time is a discussion that'll take another whole thread!

 

[Khan Bui]

I love Avatar. Hate the IMAX 3D image though.

 

[Paolo Tinari]

Loved the film. I would have preferred if they where not hunters/carnivoure.

 

[Patrick Miao]

Just saw the movie and I have to say it was stunningly good. I love the story as well as the cgi 3D effects. James Cameron has hit another homerun and I will be surprised if this movie doesn't make over 2 billion dollars.

 

[Stephen Grubb]

This was the first 3D film I've seen using these type of glasses, and thought it was well done, but from my own perspective I wouldn't want all films to be 3D. In 2D the depth of field is used to focus the audiences attention (not that I needed to tell anyone on here that!). The problem I have with 3D is that my brain is telling me I should be able to focus on the out of focus elements because I'm seeing them in the 3rd dimension, so there's something slightly uncomfortable going on with my vision. This is just my personal expierience.

P.S. Happy New Year to everybody.

 

[Craig Ryan]

So, how many of you noticed the Wilhelm scream in Avatar?

Hmm good call, I don't remember if I caught it or not.

I DID happen to cringe at "Zoom in. Enhance!". I can imagine every single person on this board cringed as well in that moment. If only right?

 

[Kenn Michael]

Hmm good call, I don't remember if I caught it or not.

I DID happen to cringe at "Zoom in. Enhance!". I can imagine every single person on this board cringed as well in that moment. If only right?

That moment totally felt tongue in cheek to me.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I DID happen to cringe at "Zoom in. Enhance!". I can imagine every single person on this board cringed as well in that moment. If only right?

I cringed and then realized that they actually employed a realistic image enhancement approach--even introducing sharpening haloing on top of what looked like some form of wavelet based detail enhancement! And my cringe turned into a pleasant surprise.

 

[Tyler Black]

true and I found those Colombian tribesmen fascinating, I dont mean to derail the thread but I am always surprised how those tribesmen preserve their way of life, the year is 2010, I wonder if they will still be left untouched and treated like the world's next anti-deforestation project by 2900!!

I suppose there's a good chance they'll be left alone for thousands of years as long as developed countries don't discover they live over a valuable natural resource.

 

[Casey Green]

Simply astonishing!

Saw it in IMAX 3D at the Burbank 16. So many achievements. Pandora was so immersive, the animation unreal. I also liked how Cameron used this story as a vehicle for making some bold statements about the human condition.

A couple things I would have liked to have seen are more developed characters, perhaps a more memorable musical score that tied in to certain characters, and maybe less one liners, but overall this is a masterpiece.

Oh, one more thing. Anyone else notice that the photos on the wall in one scene also had been made with 3D depth? I found this odd. Were they taken with a futuristic 3D Camera? If not, why did they choose to make them 3D? Anyway, great movie to start off the New Year with!

Happy 2010, everyone!

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Spiritual depth under the entertaining layers is the greatest thing about this movie.

I'm glad seeing 760 million worldwide gross after 14 days.
Maybe brain-dead or soul-less entertainment is not the only recipe for success after all...



"Zoom in" and shaky handheld look were two minor things that weren't that great for me because I think they don't go with 3D at all, but in this case - I don't care.

I think typical character development was redundant for this movie because:
a) you are there, immersed with characters and director did a good job of providing important extracts;
b) deeper character development would stray from the main story and experience;
c) I don't care for individual characters in this movie, because movie doesn't speak about an individual but global consciousness.

Anyone else notice that the photos on the wall in one scene also had been made with 3D depth? I found this odd. Were they taken with a futuristic 3D Camera? If not, why did they choose to make them 3D?

I think the reason was in the mix of fun and "because I can". ;-)