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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sandisk 16gb 60MB/s for $115

Pietro Impagliazzo said:
Aw, so I get the picture.

Has the Lexar 16GB 300x been tested?
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16GB no worky.

But you can currently get 8GB Lexar cards for around $60 on Amazon.

I did buy Red cards too.... you know, to support the cause. :)

Both Red and Lexar cards have been working alongside each other for couple of months now with no problems.
They've been identical in performance and took everything I threw at them equally well......other than not being able to record in RC42.

So if you are thinking of using these with Scarlet and RC100, I think you are out of luck.



I do hope my drive arrives soon.....
 
I shot an entire feature using those. Be warned, no RC 36, and no 29.97. Was on a shoot this week where we were on drives, then 16gig cards, then we put in the 8s - oops, no 29.97.

Nick
 
Call it bad luck perhaps, but the only time I've had problems with 8GB cards was when I used the off the shelf Lexar cards. RED cards have always worked flawless, at least the 8GB ones have.
 
Deanan pulls his hair out over this stuff every day. I don't know why cards don't match specs (particularly sustained write)... but they don't. Welcome to our world.

We have to make special runs to get the speeds we need. Now we are building custom cards for increased speed to match the needs of higher data rates. Buy what you want. But if they drop frames... good luck getting your money back.

The same irritation goes for CF readers... that's why we are building our own.

Jim
 
Julio Quintana said:
When you say "no RC 36", do you mean only in 4K 16:9 mode? If so, that is the same with the RED 8GB cards.
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The 8GB Lexar have been 100% reliable so far and I ran them alongside Red 8GB cards with no problems.

From R1 manual:

4165755780_4011073ebd_o.jpg
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Maybe we could get Red unlocked so as to use non-proprietary media? Maybe a special bypass mode acknowledging that I'm using non approved data? Since Red tells me if it dropped a frame, i'd be very content to do my own tests.
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We did that already remember... if you put a "normal" CF card in the RED ONE you can record with limited resolution, to a limited resolution/framerate.

As Jim says Deanan spends a good amount of his day going through every new card that hits the market and throwing a barrage of tests at it. We have learned that 300x 400x 500x 9000x labels don't mean much. Every month or so a new (or old) conspiracy theory pops up on how we are trying to screw you guys on media... but trust me, RED having tight quality control on that little card is in your best interest. We don't mess around when it comes to media. It is very easy to loose a million dollar shot just for saving a few bucks on cheap cards.

Remember.. things are alot better than they were in the old days, where you had to buy film (and not be able to re-use it) , or buy a box of tapes (and not be able to re-use it unless you were really brave)
 
Jim, Jarred, thanks for the update! Makes sense, though it's a bummer. Glad to hear Deanan is fighting the good fight! For the record, I wasn't espousing any view of you guys screwing us on media, I was just hopeful about this new media and was hoping someone at Red was still checking!
 
An absolutely valid point by Jarred. QC on the media to which we record is paramount. I don't want to be responsible to the production by saying 'geez, sorry. It was the card that dropped frames and that stuff we shot is unusable'...especially in doc or live performance stuff.

Of course I'd be really pissed if it happened on set too, but often you only get one chance to capture what or who you're pointing the camera at.
 
Jannard said:
The same irritation goes for CF readers... that's why we are building our own.

Jim
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USB 3.0, I hope. Also hope for that to be implemented in Epic and Scarlet, where appropriate.
 
Well a 16gig card from red costs less than 1 1000' roll of film, and you can use it over and over. So I'm not complaining. I seem to remember my SR mags were about $5k apiece (used), and then you had to put film into them, and then pay to have it processed and transfered/printed. I have no truck with Red's media what so ever.

Nick
 
Jarred Land said:
As Jim says Deanan spends a good amount of his day going through every new card that hits the market and throwing a barrage of tests at it. We have learned that 300x 400x 500x 9000x labels don't mean much. Every month or so a new (or old) conspiracy theory pops up on how we are trying to screw you guys on media... but trust me, RED having tight quality control on that little card is in your best interest. We don't mess around when it comes to media. It is very easy to loose a million dollar shot just for saving a few bucks on cheap cards.

Remember.. things are alot better than they were in the old days, where you had to buy film (and not be able to re-use it) , or buy a box of tapes (and not be able to re-use it unless you were really brave)
Click to expand...

Reminds me of the great flood of AA Nickel Metal Hydride rechargable batteries that have hit the market over the last few years, to supply the digital camera market. It seems like the mA/hr rating on most of those is whatever the manufacturer thought sounded good at the time!

Most of them are variously marked "2500mA/hr", "2000mA/hr" and so on, but there were so many complaints about short battery life that I ran some tests. Very few could actually deliver even 1000mA/hr, most of the ones I tested were somewhere between 300mA/hr and 800mA/hr! Not just no-name brands either, a set of Sony-branded cells that came with an automatic charger were just as bad.

I personally now use Sanyo "Eneloop" AA cells in my digital cameras. They're quite a bit more expensive, but not only do they actually deliver their rated capacity, they hold their charge for several months, so it's more like an old-fashioned automatic film camera, where you could leave it lying idle for years, but it would spring to life at the touch of a button.

There seems to be no regulation over what claims are made for products. I've lost count of the number of cheap DVD players I've seen that are are clearly marked "MPEG4" on the shipping carton and on the units themselves, but can't actually play any sort of MEPG4 file. Strangely enough, most Blu-ray players I've seen play can play any sort of MPEG4 file with no trouble, but they don't actually mention this. Weird.
 
Perhaps someone should make a sticky for the new CF cards and Deanan himself can manage the thread, giving reports on his results with any new CF cards that hit the market. Might sound stupid, but it could end this whole "RED screwing us over with media" thing. Also it would be very interesting.




Jono
 
Jonathon Laing said:
Perhaps someone should make a sticky for the new CF cards and Deanan himself can manage the thread, giving reports on his results with any new CF cards that hit the market. Might sound stupid, but it could end this whole "RED screwing us over with media" thing. Also it would be very interesting.




Jono
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Let me see... you want us to prove to you we aren't screwing you? I'm sure we have plenty of time for that.

Jim
 
For those of you thinking RED is screwing you over, why don't you just run your own tests? I'm assuming you already have a CF card and CF reader.

Just copy a 1GB file, and time how long it takes. That'll give you average throughput

Of course, I think the big issue here is that the lower end of that average will result in dropped frames. So you'd prolly have to use HD Tune or something similar, so you can see xfer rates, and make sure that it can keep above the necessary data rate.
 
Jannard said:
The same irritation goes for CF readers... that's why we are building our own.
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I never had any trouble with my Lexar FW800 reader (and RED cards), but one client renting it from me had.

I never found out what that was....

Jochen
 
Jannard said:
Let me see... you want us to prove to you we aren't screwing you? I'm sure we have plenty of time for that.

Jim
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Apologies... No, I believe that if you guys say that Red worthy cf cards are hard to come by then so be it. I trust you guys :) My point is, well how many CF cards do you get? How many is a lot? I just thought it would be cool if Deanan showed us the result he was getting on the new cards. Not so I or anyone else can gain your trust, but purely on an informative basis. But if hes way to busy it's cool, was just asking. Was probly a bad idea, I should know you guys have better thing to do with your time than to provice us with product reviews. :D keep up with the good work team. :thumbup:
 
Jarred Land said:
We did that already remember... if you put a "normal" CF card in the RED ONE you can record with limited resolution, to a limited resolution/framerate.

Every month or so a new (or old) conspiracy theory pops up on how we are trying to screw you guys on media... but trust me, RED having tight quality control on that little card is in your best interest. We don't mess around when it comes to media. It is very easy to loose a million dollar shot just for saving a few bucks on cheap cards.
Click to expand...

Jannard said:
Let me see... you want us to prove to you we aren't screwing you? I'm sure we have plenty of time for that.
Jim
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As a manufacturer myself for 25 years (and in an industry that has regular serious injuries/deaths where EVERYBODY gets sued) I'm sympathetic to the need to limit liability. I'm also aware that RED is seriously trying to protect us from ourselves and I've never thought the RED certified cards were overpriced or that you were trying to screw us. Certification is quite valuable and I also realize there just isn't much margin in the cards anyway.

The liability can be handled by a multi-press access to an override in the setup, with a stern warning of the danger - or even a special firmware build.

But for some of us, there are situations where we just need the time that the larger cards afford (I'm referring to 32gig lexar 600) - even at the risk of some dropouts - but 2K isn't desirable (If it was we'd be shooting with a cheaper/simpler/more compact HD camera). Professionals have been making these risk/benefit choices for years. Whether it is using short ends or out of date film stock for budget movies, or thinner tapes to get longer record times in video production.

Sometimes the million dollar shot isn't the one you might miss with a few dropped frames that can be edited around - it's the one you completely missed because you ran out of record time at 90 feet and it will take a half hour to change and in all likelihood you can't come back to get it.

For over 3 years I have been promoting the R1 as a major leap forward for underwater motion pictures but it would be even better if we could shorten the housing and also minimize heat issues by eliminating the drive. But the record time with 16gig cards is just too short to do that. I will upgrade to Epic as soon as available and that will fix any remaining issues I have with R1, but I still expect R1s to be very viable - in part because the new stage program means there will be many R1s on the used market for bargain prices so an R1/housing combo will be in the same price range as they are now spending for an EX1 or HVX camcorder and housing, so it opens the door to many more underwater photographers.

So it would be very nice for us to be able to use these 32 gig cards, evaluate the risk at 4K (and 3K) and use them when the situation dictates. The bottom line is we are adult professionals and it would be nice if the decision were ours and not locked out.
 
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