Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Canon 7D Zone Plate Shots

Graeme Nattress said:
If this doesn't lend a lot of weight to the skip 1 out of 3 lines theory of 7D (and 5D and 1D mk IV) sensor operation, I don't know what does.
Click to expand...

Is the 1D Mk4 any better ? Any side by side comparison available between the 5D Mk1, 7D & 1D Mk4 (plate shots) ?
 
Yep, the image does not look that impressive for professional use. On the other hand, to put it in perspective, the Canon 7D body costs less that two Red bottom plates and a shoulder dovetail together, so for news groups etc. it's not that bad at all.
 
David, from the nasty aliasing in the walls / ground on the mk IV video, I'd say not, but again, we'd have to point at a test chart to be sure.

Lauri, yes it's cheap.

Graeme
 
David Nardini said:
Is the 1D Mk4 any better ? Any side by side comparison available between the 5D Mk1, 7D & 1D Mk4 (plate shots) ?
Click to expand...

A little better, but Canon is still using the same general sampling method for the 1D4, which is bad news.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
As I see it, there is only one solution to this problem. Release EpicX/ScarletS35 now so I can toss the 7D into the bin.
Click to expand...

I agree. I bought a 7D, which as a lifelong Nikon shooter was pretty tough. My wife couldn't believe I'd jumped ship from both Nikon and RED. When I explained it was a crash camera, she got the point.

Roll on Epic:)
 
$1700 vs. $30,000. I just don't see the point in debating or saying that there are flaws in the 7D's image. It's a large type "no duh". I'll go one step further. I think every beginner (like myself) should DEFINATELY get a 7D (or 5DmkII) and try to shoot with it. It'll tell you for sure if you should make the leap to RED.

I bought a 7D last week. I'm learning more than I ever could (as far as focus and composition) with a video camera.
 
You're dead-on right Gary. These cameras are great for the purposes you describe. They are also great for a multitude of other uses. I did a shoot last week with the 5Dm2 (used RED for a couple shots), but rented the 5Dm2 because there were just too many places we were sticking the camera that the RED physically could not go due to size. Final output is to DVD for this and footage from both cameras looks great at this point, only starting to piece together the edit. Not to mention the 5D2 (and a Nikon D3) were used to shoot tons of stills for this project.

The low-light abilities on the 5Dm2 and 7D are pretty impressive and, IMO, these cameras really do their best work at night. I don't know if that is a complement or an insult but that's the way it is.

I'm renting a 7D in another week or so and have made a deal to buy a used one from someone later next month when they're done with it. All things considered, it's just another tool in the toolbox and a very capable, yet inexpensive one.

Like Liam, I'm a Nikon shooter. All my glass is Nikon and PL, but I've got a couple oddball canon lenses around. I picked up the Tokina 11-16 in canon mount to use for the 5Dm2 job, love that lens, and now I have one in PL, Nikon and Canon mounts for all the cameras. :) I also picked up the new Canon EF-S 15-85. In someways it's a truly awesome lens. Great range, good build quality. But it falls short in a few aspects -- it's definitely not on par with their L glass and there is some noticeable distortion throughout the zoom range. More so on the ends than in the middle. Noticeable vignette at 15mm. But all that is really OK, it's a great lens for the price. I'm not too happy with the ramping iris though. The f3.5-5.6 is a killer at times. But great "walk-around" lens for outdoors.
 
Gary Stone said:
$1700 vs. $30,000. I just don't see the point in debating or saying that there are flaws in the 7D's image. It's a large type "no duh". I'll go one step further. I think every beginner (like myself) should DEFINATELY get a 7D (or 5DmkII) and try to shoot with it. It'll tell you for sure if you should make the leap to RED.

I bought a 7D last week. I'm learning more than I ever could (as far as focus and composition) with a video camera.
Click to expand...

For the majority of independent filmmakers this is probably the case. Usually non-real world tests like these just reconfirm to me how little weight sheer image quality contributes to a "great shot." I'm not the most tech savvy when it comes to these tests, but from what I've gathered there's a horrible amount of aliasing and a lower than expected resolution image coming out of the 7D. Then I see real world shots and go, "Oh. So that's how little that stuff counts towards a good shot."

For me, because of my limited resources, I can pretty much guarantee you I can get more usable and decent-looking shots out of a 2.5 lb 7D than a 20 lb Red One. A 6 pound Scarlet is going to be interesting as to how that pans out.

All else equal, gathering great image quality is better than gathering low image quality. That said, in my opinion, the image quality coming out of the 7D is far from being the limiting factor for even most professional DPs from getting "good shots." Just have to make sure a zone plate doesn't walk into the frame :tongue_smilie:
 
Last edited:
John, respectfully disagree. I've not seen any videos from the 7D / 5D that are acceptably sharp enough. What you are seeing when you view a movie shot on one is typically very shallow DOF. The zone plates were shot at F4 - and the 85mm F1.2 is soft fully open, so again the absolute rez drops down.

When people shoot outside in daylight, stop the lenses down, actually get some DOF and things in focus, I just see poor "HD" video.

The world around is full of texture and detail. Edges define our world, not amorphous blobs of light and colour. These vDSLRs treat edges with contempt and when forced to record them, don't define them with the respect they deserve.

There's a reason people got excited by the RED when we announced it, and more than anything else it was 4k. That's because we live in a world of detail, and have eyes that appreciate it.

Rant mode off.

Graeme
 
Brad Webb said:
The real question is, how will Zone Plate charts of the new 2/3 Scarlets compare to the 7D, and Red One charts?
Click to expand...

Well.....

Do you have to ask? :-)

New Scarlets and Epics should show exemplary performance on the zone plate. As I mentioned before, we use them as a design / engineering tool as they are important to a cameras performance.

Now, don't get me wrong - resolution is not the be-all and end-all of image quality, but it is an important factor. To deny that is to take us back to SD, and that's just not going to happen.

Graeme
 
About that bin

About that bin

Jeff Kilgroe said:
As I see it, there is only one solution to this problem. Release EpicX/ScarletS35 now so I can toss the 7D into the bin.
Click to expand...
Well, if you really are planning on tossing into the bin, I would be happy to take it off your hands...:laugh:
 
Graeme Nattress said:
John, respectfully disagree. I've not seen any videos from the 7D / 5D that are acceptably sharp enough. What you are seeing when you view a movie shot on one is typically very shallow DOF. The zone plates were shot at F4 - and the 85mm F1.2 is soft fully open, so again the absolute rez drops down.

When people shoot outside in daylight, stop the lenses down, actually get some DOF and things in focus, I just see poor "HD" video.

The world around is full of texture and detail. Edges define our world, not amorphous blobs of light and colour. These vDSLRs treat edges with contempt and when forced to record them, don't define them with the respect they deserve.

There's a reason people got excited by the RED when we announced it, and more than anything else it was 4k. That's because we live in a world of detail, and have eyes that appreciate it.

Rant mode off.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Hi, Graeme. If the images simply aren't sharp enough for you and that is important to you then it's very understandable. I actually don't prefer some of the super shallow DOF a lot of people have been trying to pull with the 5DII. The Super35 characteristics I've been weaned on is enough for me, which the 7D mimics well. Super duper full-frame shallow DOF when it isn't necessary (and it usually isn't) is just distracting to me for a narrative.

And that's sort of what I'm usually going for. I normally don't prefer "gimmicks" in the cinematography unless it adds to the content (Crank 2 I thought worked wonderfully with its harsh qualities on the cheap HD cams). Which is why I actually prefer DVDs most of the time to Blu-Rays, which depending on the mastering can sometimes be so detailed as to be distracting from the narrative. It's the same reason why I don't prefer 3D. I like the "fictional" 2D part of the art, tasteful use of amorphous blobs included. Losing details would kind of fall into that category, and so I'm okay with it. Too much detail can sometimes push things too much towards a straight recording of factual events as opposed to narrative creation, which is what I'm interested in.

I was excited about the DSMC, but to be honest, I barely gave a second thought to 4K and my first action in my research into the system was to find out if 4K Red footage would mean a new editing rig which would have meant yet more $$$ (I was pleasantly surprised to find it very workable at a 2K downres with the RAW workflow). My excitement for the Scarlet was mostly in the great FPS range, expected dynamic range and color range (dunno the term for it), and all the real-world workabilities of the camera like touch-screen focusing, modularity, etc. Resolution was near the bottom of the list and I was hoping to just shoot 2K RAW.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Graeme, I feel better. I had a knot in my gut ever sins I started playing with a 7D. Very nice low light shooting and nice price, but good to know that the real resolution is not there in the 7D. Like Jeff I'm a PL and Nikon person and "converting" to Canon feels funny ;) Looking forward to Epic and Scarlet.

Good job
Best JJ
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top