Scarlet 8x Fixed Lens Photo

[Gerald Menclik]

I should be on of the first to get one of the fixed lens Scarlet, and give it some field trials. You can rest assured that I'll torture the heck out of it and report my impressions of its utility and ergonomics here and elsewhere.

Hi Steve, you're such a bad... - poor camera - can't wait for your results ............. :biggrin:

 

[enrico parenti]

Buttons and LCD's

Buttons and LCD's

but it seems to me like RED is ignoring the hard-won ergonomic lessons of 30 years of ENG cameras.

This is the point, every ENG, Cinema or 1/3 semi-pro camera has a separate iris focus and zoom control, there are plenty of good reason for this ergonomics.
One hand alone in ENG or semi-pro 1/3 can handle four-five functions. (Left hand: Focus, Iris, White Balance, shutter, Nd Filters. Right hand: Zoom, Ret button, Auto iris, REC)

Buttons and menu's are the worst things on cameras.

RED is pro camera.

Ciao

 

[Steve Gibby]

Hi Steve, you're such a bad... - poor camera - can't wait for your results ............. :biggrin:

What's the meaning your post? Is it joking, sarcasm, or slander? Please explain...

 

[Vito DeFilippo]

He's trying to make a joke, referring to you torturing the camera. I'm sure it's a bit of a language issue as well.

Basically, "Steve, you're so mean, I feel sorry for the camera you are going to torture".

Love your posts, by the way. Learning lots with my lurking.

 

[Steve Gibby]

This is the point, every ENG, Cinema or 1/3 semi-pro camera has a separate iris focus and zoom control, there are plenty of good reason for this ergonomics.
One hand alone in ENG or semi-pro 1/3 can handle four-five functions. (Left hand: Focus, Iris, White Balance, shutter, Nd Filters. Right hand: Zoom, Ret button, Auto iris, REC)

Buttons and menu's are the worst things on cameras.

RED is pro camera.

Ciao

Some definitions are in order here. ENG = Electronic News Gathering. EFP = Electronic Field Production. RED One has not been a reasonable tool for ENG because of its RAW-only shooting mode. But RED One has been used widely in non-hardlined EFP, where programs with longer turnaround times haven't been hampered by R1's Raw only capabilities. The fixed lens Scarlet has been projected (subject to change) as being selectable to shoot 3k RC Raw or 1080p RC RGB. Being able to shoot RGB, having an internal ND filter wheel, and several other key features should make the fixed lens Scarlet very usable in non-hardlined EFP and ENG, whether the programs are quick turnaround or not.

The core of my work is mobile documentaries in multiple genres - sports, wildlife, music, cultures, nature, travel, etc. Frankly I don't see a field use problem with the features RED has announced for the fixed lens Scarlet - in fact I look forward to testing the camera out. I think we should reserve judgement on how useful the camera is until the specifications are all announced as finalized and we can get the camera into field testing. Then we'll know what the camera really is good at and what its limitations are.

For mobile non-hardlined EFP, and keeping in mind I shoot a ton of that stuff, personally I would set the camera to auto iris, focus via the lens ring, and zoom with the rocker switch on the Side Grip.

Some motion media people sneer at auto-anything, but I've never been that way. I simply setup and use a camera in the most practical way to get the images I'm after. Even when using B4 2/3" camera systems for certain rapid pace genres, I would routinely use auto iris, with of course manual focus and rocker zoom. That's exactly what I'd be using with the fixed lens Scarlet most of the time for quick shooting of fleeting subject matter - auto iris, manual focus, and manual (rocker) zoom.

So, let's analyze the traditional left hand/right hand EFP/ENG operation you listed, in terms of what the possibilities are with fixed lens Scarlet:

Left hand
Focus - can be assigned to the lens ring
Iris - can be assigned to lens ring or simply auto-iris
White balance - lets not assume it can't be controlled quickly by the left hand
Shutter - lets not assume it can't be controlled quickly by the left hand
ND filters - RED has already announced an internal ND filter wheel. Let's not assume it can't be controlled quickly with the left hand

Right hand
Zoom - There is a zoom rocker on the Side Handle, right where your right hand rests - or alternately you can assign zoom to the lens ring.
Return button - Let's not assume that there isn't a return button. If there isn't that just makes it harder to use in hardlined EFP, but doesn't affect use in non-hardlined EFP, where a Return button isn't used.
Auto iris - RED has confirmed auto iris capability. Let's not assume control of it is buried in menus. My guess is there is a quick control for iris.
Record - There are two record buttons shown on Side Handle renders, plus I couldn't imagine RED not placing a Rec button on the brain itself.

Beyond my longtime cine and stills work, as a longtime full-sized and mid-sized EFP/ENG camera I have no problem with all the user-selectable combinations listed above - in fact I welcome them. There are lots of buttons and switches on traditional EFP/ENG cameras. Some EFP/ENG people may have to adjust how they use fixed lens Scarlet - but that wouldn't kill them, and if it works well, the proof is in the testing.

The X factor is RED's new auto focus system - which none of us but RED Team know much about. If the auto focus system features instantaneous acquisition and tracking of subjects, that could enable a user profile of auto iris, auto focus, and a choice of assigning manual zoom to the handle rocker switch or lens ring.

In February 2005 I produced, directed, and shot a mobile, standard definition documentary at the NFL Super Bowl XXXiX in Jacksonville. There were about 3,000 press credentials issued. I had all access. The documentary centered on all the events of the week leading up to the game, tracking celebrities all around, and then in the locker rooms, and on the field right after the game. I had a wide choice of high-end camera systems to use. What did I opt to use? A tricked out VX2100, with a Varizoom Lanc pistol grip, a zoom through wide converter, a small sungun, an L bracket with a short shotgun and a dual wireless receiver. All week long I'd be in big scrums of other camera crews - but I'd consistently get image angles the shoulder camera crews could only dream of. Many times they'd say "I wish I had your camera system today!". That VX2100 was set up how I would setup the fixed lens Scarlet for shooting subject matter like that - auto iris, sometimes auto focus and sometimes manual focus on the lens ring, and manual rocker zoom.

That documentary aired nationally and was well received. People seemed to love they way I got shots and camera angles they didn't see anyone else get. To me that was a simple example of leaving ego aside, picking the right tool for the job, and using it the right way on the job.

If RED produces the 2x extender and wide converter lenses they mentioned early on for the fixed lens Scarlet, that would also give quick ability to have a 16x zoom, or a very wide angle lens. Both of those would come in way handy for a long list of mobile EFP genres - nature, sports, wildlife, travel, docs of various genres, and on and on. They've already confirmed an internal ND filter wheel, which is another key feature for shooting in those genres.

Obviously for other subject matter with the Scarlet where I have more time to get the images, I'll opt to go manual. For higher resolutions and frame rates I'll go to my Epic and probably shoot most functions manually, although I'll explore all features of Epic to maximize them for each shooting occasion.

I've regularly setup RED One for non-hardlined EFP production, with B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms for 2k, and with 35mm stills lenses for 3k and 4k. For decades before getting my REDs, I've had a deep understanding of traditional EFP/ENG camera ergonomics and use. Nobody needs to inform me of EFP/ENG camera ergonomics and usage. Attached are just a few of my non-hardlined EFP setups of RED One.

Let's reserve judgment of the ergonomics and field use potential of the fixed lens Scarlet until the camera can be field tested. Even then, there will be traditionalists who complain about having to learn some new techniques and adjust to some alternate ergonomics. In my experience those guys either pass on the camera, or when they actually use it they realize that there is more than one way to setup and use a camera. My best advice is to keep an open mind until you can test it out - then if you can't adjust or don't like it, go back to your traditional EFP/ENG camera comfort zone, with another camera.

 

[Steve Gibby]

He's trying to make a joke, referring to you torturing the camera. I'm sure it's a bit of a language issue as well.

Basically, "Steve, you're so mean, I feel sorry for the camera you are going to torture".

Love your posts, by the way. Learning lots with my lurking.

Ah...I understand! No worries...I thought that might be what he meant, but I thought I'd clarify it though.

Thanks for the kind words..

Yes, I'll test ("torture") the heck out of the camera - not mistreat it, but push it to its limits.

 

[enrico parenti]

Let's wait and lets not assume that we will need to find turnaround like on VDSRL.

Probably they will not disappoint us.

 

[Gerald Menclik]

What's the meaning your post? Is it joking, sarcasm, or slander? Please explain...

just joking ... come on Steve, smile a little .... was it that bad?

 

[Gerald Menclik]

He's trying to make a joke, referring to you torturing the camera. I'm sure it's a bit of a language issue as well.

Basically, "Steve, you're so mean, I feel sorry for the camera you are going to torture".

Love your posts, by the way. Learning lots with my lurking.

Thank you Vito, you got me!

 

[Steve Gibby]

just joking ... come on Steve, smile a little .... was it that bad?

Actually it was really good - now that I understand your meaning! Everyone who knows me also knows that I smile continuously, joke around, tease, etc.

Ciao

 

[Felix K.]

Everyone who knows me also knows that I smile continuously, joke around, tease, etc.

That is true! He even said he might give me a job as assitant :smilewinkgrin:!

 

[Gerald Menclik]

Actually it was really good - now that I understand your meaning! Everyone who knows me also knows that I smile continuously, joke around, tease, etc.

Ciao

Thank you, I was really anxious that I spoiled the whole thing by something like a missinterpretation, please feel free to correct my words!

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Let's wait and lets not assume that we will need to find turnaround like on VDSRL.

Probably they will not disappoint us.

Are you even familiar with RED?

Seems like you don't know much about the companies history or how it operates.

 

[Joe G.]

I am quite surprised that there is no manual focus on the fixed Scarlet. Can that be right?

I suppose if the tracking focus touchscreen thing works as well as can be it may not be necessary. I'd sure like not having to worry about focusing issues.

Other manufacturers have face tracking and object tracking (automatically) so things STAY in focus on their own pretty well. Will we see this?

 

[Steve Gibby]

Joe G.

All things are subject to change, but as of a few days ago the word is that there are multiple user-selectable options for focus on the fixed lens Scarlet: manual focus, touch focus, and auto focus. Here's some recent post by Jarred about assignable functions on the fixed lens Scarlet:


"And on the fixed 8x lens.. remember the ring on the lens is electronic. Which means you can program it to control focus. or iris. or zoom. Some people might want to touch focus or auto focus and use that ring for zoom control. Some might not. The choice is yours."

Jarred
11-4-09
http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=131




"There are more "rings" in numerous locations on separate controls.. i.e. the side handle has multiple rings/wheels that you can assign to the iris, or the focus, or the zoom to. If you are a diehard guy that needs to have manual control of all lens operation, we make the removable fixed 2/3" version."

Jarred
11-6-09, http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=144

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

I am quite surprised that there is no manual focus on the fixed Scarlet. Can that be right?

I suppose if the tracking focus touchscreen thing works as well as can be it may not be necessary. I'd sure like not having to worry about focusing issues.

Other manufacturers have face tracking and object tracking (automatically) so things STAY in focus on their own pretty well. Will we see this?

The focus ring is for manual focus.

 

[Charles Angus]

I understand your position Charles...

I think the fixed lens Scarlet will require many to re-think their ergonomics and utilitarian concepts, and potentially re-adjust their field techniques a bit. The camera itself will be pretty small. I'll resist the urge to make it bigger in size, but test out a variety of RED accessories (2x, WA converter, etc.) and 3rd party gadgets to see what works well with it.

I should be on of the first to get one of the fixed lens Scarlet, and give it some field trials. You can rest assured that I'll torture the heck out of it and report my impressions of its utility and ergonomics here and elsewhere.

IMO we have some fun times ahead with fixed Scarlet :thumbsup:

Looking forward to your insights when you get your hands on one, Steve.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like this will be workable. I think if you could use a momentary-style button that the right hand could reach while holding the camera to toggle the ring between two settings, this might actually be better than a three-ring camera. Push button, zoom, release button, focus, push button, zoom out, release button, all the while controlling the iris with what Canon calls the "main dial" under the index finger.

So, if it can work like that, I would change my vote from "grumble" to "excited", and call my initial reaction "fear of change".

It's good that there's open-minded folk out there like you, Steve, to keep us conclusion-jumpers in check.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Thanks Charles...I guess its in my nature to explore alternative setup and technique possibilities with camera systems. I have a real good feeling about the utility of the fixed lens Scarlet...

As we know, all things are subject to change, but in case you missed them, here's a paste of some of the key posts by RED Team in the last week about the options for assigning focus, iris, and zoom on the fixed lens Scarlet. I see some pretty cool possibilities there. Can't wait to test them out...



"Zoom control from the rocker switch on the Side Grip or REDmote"

Stuart
11-03-09
http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37270




"The Redmote ( or multiple Redmote's) can control focus.. if you want it to.

And on the fixed 8x lens.. remember the ring on the lens is electronic. Which means you can program it to control focus. or iris. or zoom. Some people might want to touch focus or auto focus and use that ring for zoom control. Some might not. The choice is yours."

Jarred
11-4-09
http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=131



"There are more "rings" in numerous locations on separate controls.. i.e. the side handle has multiple rings/wheels that you can assign to the iris, or the focus, or the zoom to. If you are a diehard guy that needs to have manual control of all lens operation, we make the removable 2/3" version."

Jarred
11-6-09
http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=144



"You can have full auto or full manual... you choose. But the manual controls are not the same as conventional."

Jim
11-6-08
http://205.234.135.241/forum/showthread.php?t=37010&page=144

 

[Stephen Gentle]

The more I think about it, the more it seems like this will be workable. I think if you could use a momentary-style button that the right hand could reach while holding the camera to toggle the ring between two settings, this might actually be better than a three-ring camera. Push button, zoom, release button, focus, push button, zoom out, release button, all the while controlling the iris with what Canon calls the "main dial" under the index finger.

I think this sounds like a great way of using the camera which should be very workable. My only concern is about the speed of the motors in the lens - hopefully it's not going to be like the Sony Z1, where the zoom wheel feels like it has a half second delay... But I'm sure RED won't disappoint!