Cheap lenses for the 2/3rd interchangable

[Peter Weisberg]

I recently have been giving a lot more thought to getting a 2/3rd interchangable lens camera over the fixed lens. I read that its hard to find glass, specifically cheap glass for this sensor. So my question is this, anyone know of any cheap glass that would work well on a 2/3rd sensor? How much more money is it estimated to be from the interchangable model from the fixed lens?

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Fujinon

Fujinon

I have seen Fujinon machine vision lenses used on 2/3" Bayer sensor and they seem to work, you can google the 5 megapixel ones, and also the ones by Kowa.

The main problem with those little lenses is that there is no focus scale, and it would be hard to put a follow focus gear on them. Also the iris markings if any would be hard to use, you would need to expose by gray/white card and histogram, probably.

A good set of lenses might cost about $2500 to $5000 or so, you would want,

5mm

8mm

12mm

16mm

25mm

50mm

and maybe a reflex zoom.

2/3" is smaller than regular 16mm so the lenses need to be wider angle.

Anything longer than 50mm would be for sports or nature mostly I would think.

 

[Dominic Jones]

There are a ton of cheap c-mount 16mm lenses out there - some better than others of course, but probably all a better bet (in usability terms if nothing else) than machine vision lenses, which as Dan rightly points out are not really designed for operational ease in the field...

I would venture to guess that they won't be quite so cheap in a year or two's time, though ;-)

Dom.

EDIT: Also, there will be some pretty funky looks from some of these lenses, particularly very old ones, which might be great for music promos and the like... Just a thought!

 

[David Rasberry]

Vintage 16mm lenses from Angenieux, Schneider, Zeiss, Cooke, Kern-Paillard, Kinoptik, Bell & Howell, Kodak and others in either c-mount or Arri standard or bayonet mount will work very well if they are in good condition. Arri mount lenses can be converted to modern PL mount with a relatively inexpensive adapter.
What do you consider cheap? The best of the above lenses can still bring close to $1k on Ebay and many go for $200-400. On the other end of the scale, Cosmicar and Computar industrial lenses can be had for less than $100 each, often much less.
Decent vintage zooms typically range from around $200 to $800 or more and probably represent the best buys, as new zooms are quite expensive. But be prepared to spend $600-$1k for a major service to get the best results with them.
I have been slowly collecting lenses for more than a year now and have spent around $3k for a selection of mostly zooms and a few primes. Of these about $200 worth of them are junk. But I have also acquired a couple of primo models that would cost much more than $20k to buy new equivalents or $1500-$2500 or more for fully serviced mint used ones from a reputable dealer.

For longer focal length vintage primes, 25mm and up, there is added competition from Lumix G1/GH1 micro 4/3 enthusiasts that is pushing prices up for the better faster examples. To see some sample photos taken with G1's and vintage c-mount lenses take a look at www.oldlens.com, the lower left side of the main page. To see some 16mm footage samples with a selection of high quality ARRI mount zooms and primes, check out www.arri16s.com.

 

[Peter Weisberg]

thanks for the advice. When i say cheap I guess i mean i want to get a set or a very good zoom for around the same price as what I'm paying for the body, maybe a bit more. Any idea when we will be hearing more about the red mini primes?

 

[David Rasberry]

thanks for the advice. When i say cheap I guess i mean i want to get a set or a very good zoom for around the same price as what I'm paying for the body, maybe a bit more. Any idea when we will be hearing more about the red mini primes?

That seems like a reasonable budget. About what I planned for too. I don't know how the mini-primes will price out, but the Linos c-mounts from P+S Technik or the Russian 16mm Elites are more like $2500 per lens and up new.

I picked up a Cooke 9-50mm that will probably wind up costing around $2k
after it is serviced and converted to PL mount, but this is one of the very best top line quality 16mm zooms. These run typically around $3k+ in clean serviced condition from a reputable dealer. I've only seen two show up on Ebay in the last year. Kip Kubin has been shooting some 2k footage on a Red one with one of these and recently posted a still. Beautiful lens that should be a great match for Scarlet.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33173

 

[Stefan Christou]

You need to watch out when buying glass for 2/3 Cinema, it needs to be fast (cos of the size of the airy disc) and it needs to be as sharp as hell or you won't be getting full resolution.

Machine vision lenses are also optimised for figures out in the distance rather than closer, so they'd most likely be a bit soft (again lower rez) at most distances used for filming.

Stefan

 

[Stefan Christou]

I recommend Fujinon lenses (2/3" zooms are cheaper than their s35mm zoom)

 

[Dominic Jones]

The problem with 2/3" optics is that they will require an adapter for use on single-plane sensors. On a budget that will be an issue...

I still say c-mount 16mm optics, on a tight budget, and PL-mount 16mm optics on a slightly larger budget (perhaps more suitable for the OP) will likely be the way to go, unless you need true ENG-style operation.

Have a look at this for a cheap lens for a Scarlet 2/3, for instance:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOOD-Kowa-C-M...s_JN?hash=item5d25ae8504&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

You can't say fairer than that for a cheap lens option! Not going to be the absolute greatest lens in the world, but if you're on a tight budget, that's a fast, medium range zoom that will likely produce very decent pictures for basically nothing!...

Just my 0.02,
Dom.

 

[David Rasberry]

For example images of vintage C-mount lenses shot with a Lumix G1 checkout www.oldlens.com. Keep in mind they are trying to cover a much larger sensor so you will see vignetting and distortion at the edges that won't show up on a Scarlet. The best of these are very good indeed.
There are some good 16mm film samples of various lenses posted at www.arri16s.com too. The classic Angenieux 12-120 f2.2 is still a very good lens if you find one in good condition, better than most of the TV lenses. They can be a little soft wide open, but are quite sharp if stopped down to around f4. Typically going for around $200+ on Ebay.

 

[Peter Weisberg]

I picked up a Cooke 9-50mm that will probably wind up costing around $2k
after it is serviced and converted to PL mount, but this is one of the very best top line quality 16mm zooms. These run typically around $3k+ in clean serviced condition from a reputable dealer. I've only seen two show up on Ebay in the last year. Kip Kubin has been shooting some 2k footage on a Red one with one of these and recently posted a still. Beautiful lens that should be a great match for Scarlet.
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33173

It looks like this lens is T2.5, I'm not too familiar with the T # but I read a post explaining it. If its T2.5 roughly what F-stop would that be, and is the lens fast enough to get some nice shallow DOF? If i can I'd like to get closer to 35 mil look on 16 mil glass. That is to say I'm looking for a very cinematic look.

I looked at the Kowa lens and I gotta say I'm abit tempted at that price, but seeing as I won't even have the camera for at least 6 months (if that) I don't know if it makes sense to buy right now, other than that once it does come out prices will shoot up. But I'm still a bit of a noobie so if someone could explain what these industrial lenses are and why they are so cheap that would be nice. Also explain the difference in quality in mounts. I'm looking for the cooke and angenieux lenses right now. I feel like it might be more beneficial to go for a zoom lens, especially since most of them seem pretty fast. Any good cheap prime kits available? And just any other general advice welcome!

 

[David Rasberry]

I looked at the Kowa lens and I gotta say I'm abit tempted at that price, but seeing as I won't even have the camera for at least 6 months (if that) I don't know if it makes sense to buy right now, other than that once it does come out prices will shoot up.

I bought some cheap lenses like that just to try. A couple of the really cheap ones, a Fujinon zoom and a Canon, turned out to be useless junk. But that is the risk you take with Ebay.

It looks like this lens is T2.5, I'm not too familiar with the T # but I read a post explaining it. If its T2.5 roughly what F-stop would that be, and is the lens fast enough to get some nice shallow DOF? If i can I'd like to get closer to 35 mil look on 16 mil glass. That is to say I'm looking for a very cinematic look.

Its probably around f2.2. There is about a 2-1/2 stop difference between 35mm and 2/3"/16mm DOF. This lens at T2.5 would be about like a 35mm DOF at f5.6 or so.

 

[Peter Weisberg]

Its probably around f2.2. There is about a 2-1/2 stop difference between 35mm and 2/3"/16mm DOF. This lens at T2.5 would be about like a 35mm DOF at f5.6 or so.

so not very shallow? maybe a little bit of background blur but not a nice bokeh. I'm not really sure, all my knowledge of fstop to dof is based on what I've read here.