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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I own a GH-1 and MKii and this is how RED can truly seal the deal

Lyndel Crosley said:
Kholi,

Those cameras do make some pretty pictures on the surface do to the MPEG-4 AVC /H.264 but they do have a few draw-backs:

AVCHD is a 15 frame Long GOP (long group of pictures) which means at 24p you only have 2 full/true frames.

AVCHD: Chroma sampling is only 4:2:0

Both of those facts can make an editor or a colorist’s life very unhappy

Will people shoot them anyway? … yes

My point is the more complex the project the more of a pain those draw-backs become. But with enough money any draw-back goes away. Lol

Be well man
Click to expand...


Right right. I'll continue to shoot with my cameras as well. All in all, it's just another one of several other ideas being thrown out there.

I know there are a lot of people hanging on to what the RED Team will release later on down the road. I'm sure it'll also be worth 7K just for the body/brain.

I wonder how well it could do knowing what we all know now versus what we knew when Scarlet was announced.

The MKii and GH-1 are pretty awesome cameras with limitations. One costs 1500, features a 4/3" Sensor and a Kit Lens and while it doesn't offer RED performance, it's still pretty damned good for the price.

The other costs 2800.00 for the body and matching it to RED footage @ 1080 is absolutely doable.

Again, I bet when Scarlet comes around it'll be great. It'd be nice to have one sooner than much later with simple specs.

Just thinking out loud. It's not a GH-1 and MKii versus Scarlet, it's more like Let's get a Scarlet that does a great job and competes in the same price range.
 
Kenneth Elkington said:
Having seen a couple comparisons, I can say that the RED has a much much larger dynamic range.
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I definitely disagree with you, having shot both side by side just yesterday on a corporate gig. The "Dynamic range" fluxuates with user and camera settings.

Secondly, the MKii JUST got Manual Controls. Id' expect new "DR" tests to pop up any day now revealing lots more info than we knew prior.

I'll tell you from first hand account, not someone elses, that it certainly will mix @ 1080P, not a single doubt in my mind.

RAW will be pushed further in post, of course, but shot for shot I'd love to see who could really tell the difference. No, the Mkii is not RAW or RED. But it's pretty damned incredible @ 2800.00.

Same went for that EX-1 side-by-side test, people barely noticed.

So yeah, to answer Stephen's somewhat premature response: I'm serious.

But again, this IS a RED forum and of course there's going to be people on the defense instead of the objective. I digress.

Guess it's time to wait until Scarlet becomes a reality to see what it has become.
 
I'm really concerned about RED's commitment to Scarlet.

The RED ONE has gained its space on the middle to high end Pro Market and RED is probably making money with the camera and its accessories- its situated in a price range that is very competitive VS the High End 2/3rds and S35 Digital Cinema cameras. The Scarlet, however, which is RED's attempt at getting into the Prosumer, Low Budget Indie/Pro, faces a much more agressive competition ,due to surprisingly fast responses from the competition - the Canon 5d Mark II is probably the most agressive move I've seen from a Big Manufacturer in years in this market! Scarlet's business model was always based in high volume sales. Seeing that The 5d Mark II is probably only 6fps more from a FF35 Digital Cinema camera, I would have to second Kholi's post: Scarlet needs either to come out FAST (it has the advantage of having a Camcorder design, Variable frame rates, 24/25p, REDCODE and modular design), or rethink its strategy if it comes out AFTER the almost certain announcement this Summer of Canon's XL successor (or the rumoured 24/25p firmware update for the 5d).
 
As a new proud owner of a 5D Mark II and an owner of the Red One, I completely agree with this thread. The 3k Fixed Lens Scarlet, even though Redcode, seems outdated already. The Canon 5D cost me as much as a Red One EVF. I think Red needs a Full Frame, 2k Scarlet with Nikon/Canon mounts. Save the PL mount pro version for the bigger Scarlets. Give us a portable little camera that will kick the competitions ass. I want something that is as light or lighter than the 5D with the Red picture pizzah and for cheap. You'll sell billions. Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, this is getting interesting,..
 
SPZ said:
I'm really concerned about RED's commitment to Scarlet.

The RED ONE has gained its space on the middle to high end Pro Market and RED is probably making money with the camera and its accessories- its situated in a price range that is very competitive VS the High End 2/3rds and S35 Digital Cinema cameras. The Scarlet, however, which is RED's attempt at getting into the Prosumer, Low Budget Indie/Pro, faces a much more agressive competition ,due to surprisingly fast responses from the competition - the Canon 5d Mark II is probably the most agressive move I've seen from a Big Manufacturer in years in this market! Scarlet's business model was always based in high volume sales. Seeing that The 5d Mark II is probably only 6fps more from a FF35 Digital Cinema camera, I would have to second Kholi's post: Scarlet needs either to come out FAST (it has the advantage of having a Camcorder design, Variable frame rates, 24/25p, REDCODE and modular design), or rethink its strategy if it comes out AFTER the almost certain announcement this Summer of Canon's XL successor (or the rumoured 24/25p firmware update for the 5d).
Click to expand...

To some extent this is true but RED have also stated that there are still a few surprises up their sleeves and that the specs you see on RED.com regarding Scarlet and Epic are not final. They have also stated that the info they release is at least 2 months out of date.

So for us it makes an interesting game of bluff and guesswork as to what will happen.

From a logical point of view, everything RED is doing (and has done so far) makes sense. For them to make a killing they need to drop a bombshell at the time it goes on sale ... actually at this point in the game (considering how far they've come) ... they kinda have to.
 
RED's specs for the Scarlets are just fine. No reason to fret.
It doesn't matter if Canon releases their H1 replacement with a big sensor, or Panasonic comes out with a 2K or 1080P 4/3" video camera, or any number of possibilities.

The fact is that the budget camcorder market is big enough that all these different vendors can come out with different spec'ed products and be successful if the cameras are well designed and appeal to their niche market of customers.

Obviously people are on this board for a reason, and thats because the Scarlets as currently spec'ed offer a great leap in capabilities that has piqued our interests. The fact that there's competition only means there's a bigger pie - nobody can take the whole thing which is good for everybody.
 
I Bloom said:
Just out of curiosity, I need a new SLR. How is the GH-1 as a still camera?

IBloom
Click to expand...

Check out the Canon EOS Rebel T1i.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=18385

I decided to get this while waiting for the 5dMkII to come down in price. It's $799 (list), 15 megapixel, APS-C/S35/REDONE sized sensor/DOF and has video very similar to 5dMkII - difference is you get 720p at 30fps - 1080p is 20fps, and no audio input, only an onboard microphone.

But it lets me use all of my canon lenses that I use for the Birger mount Redone (including my contax/yashica zeiss lenses which work great manual focusing and iris for video as well as the zeiss look and feel). Records video to class 6 SDHC cards (bought 32gigs for $119 at Abel cinetech, 16 gigs were $45 at B&H)

It is extremely compact, significantly smaller than the 5D. It lets me get great stills with the convenience of a 720p (or 1080 for subjects that can deal with 20fps) movie camera with S35 DOF (bye, bye HVX200) with pretty darn good recording quality, particularly compared to HDV.

And at $799 there just isn't much downside, so I won't be bummed out when they come out with the next generation like maybe I would be if I bought the 5DMKII at $2699. I'll be able to just set it aside and use it as my REDONE directors viewfinder/light meter or sell it on ebay for $500. Either way just a few hundred dollar hit - nothing to lose sleep over.

BTW In a way, this camera (more than the 5D) shows how competitive the lower end scarlet market can get. I don't think there was much of a technological issue with this t1i doing 24fps 1080 it was more likely just a way to differentiate it from the 5D. Certainly the next gen REBEL, EOS60D and beyond will be able to up the ante substantially. Canon is just getting started, they have been holding back the video side for years so as not to jeopardize their broadcast lens business, but the 5D showed them there is much more money in that market (plus the SLR lenses) so I think that consideration has gone by the wayside and the floodgates are about to open. Remember it is only 6 months since the 5D showed them how much demand there was.
 
Can someone with experience speak to the low light advantages of the 5D? As I understand it, the camera can shoot in extremely low light levels, which could make it a companion to the RED for low budget night shooting. Is that true?
 
Kenneth Elkington said:
To my knowledge there aren't yet any mounts for u4/3 except 4/3 to u4/3 so if you want to be using other glass on a GH1 you're going to have to be okay with no autofocus or auto-exposure control. I'm not denigrating the GH1, I'm contemplating getting one myself, but the other cameras in the price range have better low-light performance. You just have to consider the compromises that are going into it if you're buying it primarily as a still camera. If you're getting it to do some substantial motion work, than you're pretty much down it it and the 5d2.
Click to expand...

There are C mount, Leica M mount, PL mount adapters for m4/3 available now. Only for use with manual lenses though, no electronic interface.
 
People please, dont forget that the scarlet is going to be modular. Also I'd say its more built for motion rather than still. Canons built mainly for stills.


Also, wash your eyes out and relook at some of the scarlet prototypes. I cream myself every time I look it, and every time i do it reasures me how far ahead of the competition Red really is.

:closed:
 
Agreed. No one is competing with Red in the motion picture camera world at anything near the price yet. The still cams with video are toys by comparison.
Before we ask Red to compete in price vs sensor size with Canon et al, lets see Canon compete in video quality with Red, any model. I'm sorry, but Canon 5D video quality as far as aliasing, pixel structure , artifacts is little better than HDV. People are taken in by the strengths and advantages of the large sensor, but much of this is crippled by the line skipping and long GOP codec. The video quality is just not that good.
 
J Davis said:
From a logical point of view, everything RED is doing (and has done so far) makes sense. For them to make a killing they need to drop a bombshell at the time it goes on sale ... actually at this point in the game (considering how far they've come) ... they kinda have to.
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who thinks that Red kinda screwed itself by announcing Scarlet so far in advance that it gave the competition time to respond and put out products that would tempt potential Scarlet users? The bombshell needed to be giving the specs of the camera 2 months before shipping. Something tells me if they had gone this route the 5D would still be nothing more than a curiosity and not morphing into a semi-functional video camera.

The bottom line is that Scarlet needs to hit the streets to quell much of the noise these other cameras are making.
 
Ethan Cooper said:
J Davis said:
From a logical point of view, everything RED is doing (and has done so far) makes sense. For them to make a killing they need to drop a bombshell at the time it goes on sale ... actually at this point in the game (considering how far they've come) ... they kinda have to.
Click to expand...


Am I the only one who thinks that Red kinda screwed itself by announcing Scarlet so far in advance that it gave the competition time to respond and put out products that would tempt potential Scarlet users? The bombshell needed to be giving the specs of the camera 2 months before shipping. Something tells me if they had gone this route the 5D would still be nothing more than a curiosity and not morphing into a semi-functional video camera.

The bottom line is that Scarlet needs to hit the streets to quell much of the noise these other cameras are making.
Click to expand...

I don't think its a mistake, they need to generate buzz. Ramping up on the specs and sweetening the deal as the time approaches is part of it.
 
Don't flatter yourselves

Don't flatter yourselves

Ethan Cooper said:
Am I the only one who thinks that Red kinda screwed itself by announcing Scarlet so far in advance that it gave the competition time to respond and put out products that would tempt potential Scarlet users? The bombshell needed to be giving the specs of the camera 2 months before shipping. Something tells me if they had gone this route the 5D would still be nothing more than a curiosity and not morphing into a semi-functional video camera.

The bottom line is that Scarlet needs to hit the streets to quell much of the noise these other cameras are making.
Click to expand...

If anyone thinks that the imaging industry trembles when Red makes an announcement they need to wake up.
Canon's MII was a response to Nikon's D90. Now Nikon has no vested interest in Video industry(they don't have a camcorder division) so they purchased the DSP from Sony(and Sony would not sell them the newest and greatest)
and ambushed Canon for a short while. Canon is a powerhouse in DSP technology and has been making heavy investments in it continuosly. The Digic IV and now Digic V have no match on the marked now IMO. Just look at their low light performance, only one aspect of it. Anyway Canon, reluctantly(no manual controls in attempt to limit the competition to their video products) responded. Fortunately the general public pressured Canon into implementing the right features. Again, reluctantly.
Panasonic, just like Canon, has big camcorder division and very small (but quickly growing)still division. They own an excellent codec(AVCHD h.264)The G1 was a disappointment for the lack of video feature and I'm surprised it took them that long to implement GH1. They missed the holiday shopping season. They just had to respond not to be left behind in this fast emerging hybrid marked. Now I'm sure that Red sped up that process but it still is a match between the Big Boys. And we haven't seen the end of it yet.
There is no doubt that Red is going to put a dent in this market. How big is yet to be seen since they don't have a product for this segment.
Now having said that I 'm aware of a 1000+ Scarlets being ordered by one of the big LA Camera retailers(I'm not sure I can say which one here) but AFAIK this is mainly for the asian market as this company canot compete there with brand name products. Interesting times, anyway...
Jacek Zakowicz, optitek-dot-org
 
Douglas Underdahl said:
Can someone with experience speak to the low light advantages of the 5D? As I understand it, the camera can shoot in extremely low light levels, which could make it a companion to the RED for low budget night shooting. Is that true?
Click to expand...


Now that the manual firmware is out we should see a lot of re-tests on lowlight production. So far it looks like it's a good stop or better than what RED's at today.

You could definitely shoot candle light with this sucker.

Only thing I don't like about it is the Full Frame FOV, odd enough. That's my main gripe. I can live with converting to 24p for now, but the Full Frame and having to stop down to tame the camera is a wee bit annoying.

It's an awesome companion to RED for the time being.
 
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