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Origo - Lemo Warning

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Jarred Land

Jarred Land

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This is a hard post to make.. because we love what Curt is doing over at Viewfactor so much. Unfortunately I gotta put up a yellow flag on the Origio for our customers.

Since the Origo has been shipping, we have received on average 2 cameras a week come back with Blown out camera ports that the Origo connect to. This seems to be a connected to a cable/connector problem, and last we heard Curt is talking to Lemo about the issue, but since the failure rate is so high, and the damage done is not free to repair ( the repairs average between $300-$800 ) I just need to raise my hand.

As you can imagine, some customers are not too happy when they get the bill. This damage is not covered under your RED ONE camera warranty.

I fully expect Curt to find a resolve for this ASAP... we have been talking to him about it for a couple months now. Im sure Curt will post some preventative measures ( make sure the barrels of the cables that shipped with Origo have the correct orientation ) etc.

Thanks all.
 
Jarred, maybe you mean Origo instead of Origio ?

I remembered Curt said that the output voltage from RED Camera is not stable, while it works on some camera and while others dont work.

So is this RED or VF problem ?

Rivai
 
3rd party 0B 4-pin LEMO cables and the Aux 12V port

3rd party 0B 4-pin LEMO cables and the Aux 12V port

We have identified external 4 pin cables that can invert the power / ground and GPIO signal / tally pin mapping to the Aux 12 V port.

Apparently there is a mode that LEMO 0B 4-pin connectors can be placed into where the barrel can be rotated 180 degrees and then latch again. This can happen if the latch pins are damaged, or too much pressure has been applied during cable construction.

Either way the effect is to map the 12V battery output to the 3.3V GPO tally pin, and that creates a risk of damage to the camera. On a correctly cabled camera, the 12V Aux power output is protected against a dead short and the GPI/O pins are protected against short term higher than normal voltages and currents, such as created by ESD and EOS events. However this type of external cabling fault can cause GPIO circuit damage, and any necessary repairs that result from this are not covered by warranty.

If you are using an external 4-pin cable to trigger or to draw power via the Aux 12V port, you should verify that the barrel of the connector is not able to rotate 180 degrees. If it is capable of this fault, it will only take modest pressure to induce the rotation. Just slide the barrel back from the "latched" position and then gently try and rotate it. If it does rotate, and then clicks back into lock again, its a faulty cable.

This fault condition is specific to 0B shell size LEMOS, however the 0B 5-pin timecode cable is not a concern.

If you have a cable with this fault, do not use it. Contact your supplier and ask for a replacement
 
Thanks Jarred,

This is extremely important information and i am very surprised Curt has not even mentioned this to customers. I will be checking mine out immediately.
 
Holy crap! Mine has worked flawless but now I am tempted at holding off until we hear from VF about this
 
Reminds me of the compact consumer 4-pin firewire connector... It is keyed, but experience has shown it is possible to force it in upside-down, and that has reportedly killed the firewire I/O on some camcorders.
 
Jarred mine has been working great as well for start, stop, and ramps. Do you recommend not using it at this point. Please advise because I have a lot of shoots coming up next week.
Thanks,
 
4-pin cable test

4-pin cable test

If it has been working fine, you could mark the barrel and base of the LEMO with paint so that you have a visible indication if the barrel has rotated 180 degrees.

And (once the paint is dry) try the rotation test that I described above. If it does rotate get a replacement cable...
 
wow..
 
Stuart English said:
Apparently there is a mode that LEMO 0B 4-pin connectors can be placed into where the barrel can be rotated 180 degrees and then latch again. This can happen if the latch pins are damaged, or too much pressure has been applied during cable construction.
Click to expand...

Stuart, aren't you saying this warning applies then to anything connected to the Aux 12V port? Sounds like it's not just an Origo related problem.
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Stuart, aren't you saying this warning applies then to anything connected to the Aux 12V port? Sounds like it's not just an Origo related problem.
Click to expand...

This could be very well true and it is what we at RED believe to be the case that it is the VF cable issue ( as i mention in my first post ) that is supplied with the Orgio. That is our opinion and we have verified it as much as we can internally.

We aren't trying to pick on Curt, It is just the volume of Origo issues we have seen warrants a warning specially since customers keep telling us they knew nothing about such issue, and understandably they direct responsibility to us.

We don't establish other companies policies on dealing with issues.. at RED we are very upfront and vocal about our problems (as you guys know) so this notification is just a yellow flag because It has started to affect our customers in greater and greater numbers.

By all means, if you use LEMO 0b 4pin connectors for other products, RED or 3rd party, get them checked out.
 
It does sound like it's not so much an Origo problem as a Lemo problem.

Where I work these exact same Lemos are used for other kit, and the number of times we get them back damaged when users are less than gentle trying to insert them...and as we know renters aren't gentle with kit!

It's also tempting to plug them in just by feel, which is fine if you're gentle when rotating it round to find the key, but potentially could cause a problem if done hamfistedly.
 
I will check our Birger mount LEMO cable when next I head to the office for this same potential defect.

Marking with paint or texter seems to be good advice at this point to ensure that a rotational misalignment is picked up quickly.

We don't have an Origo since we bought the Viewfactor Impero and didn't see the need for doubling up on start/stop functionality, but we will have to avoid anyone else plugging in their own if they have it until this issue is resolved by Viewfactor.

Cheers for the info.

Paul
 
Stuart English said:
If it has been working fine, you could mark the barrel and base of the LEMO with paint so that you have a visible indication if the barrel has rotated 180 degrees.

And (once the paint is dry) try the rotation test that I described above. If it does rotate get a replacement cable...
Click to expand...

Hi Stuart

I think I know what's happening, but would it be possible to get a little video clip showing your rotational test. No worries if not - know everyone's busy!
 
Actually, potentially, if the key has been compromised, it would also be possible to plug it in at 90 degrees rotated too. Not good in any case.

When making up your own cables, and a thin spanner is unavailable for the barrel, people sometimes use a matching 4pin Lemo socket to hold the barrel static while tightening the cable clamp collet nut. While this works fine, there is a possibility of stripping the internal key if excessive force is used overtightening the cable clamp collet nut. Maybe this might have happened with some cable suppliers to third party manufacturers?

It could be an issue with any third party kit that uses the 12V/GPIO ports on the Red. Not saying there is any actual problem, but for example Monstercine's start/stop cable, and Birger's EF mount both use these ports.

Unfortunately Lemo's are difficult to assemble failsafe. The solder pins are tiny. It's very easy to overheat when soldering. A bit too much heat and the pins can become loose enough to rotate. If the cable clamp is loose, or the cable too thin to be tightly clamped, over time the cable can twist inside the connector to the point where adjacent pins rotate such that any exposed wire at the pins can touch any exposed wire of the adjacent pins. Or excessive blobs of solder can do the same. Very thin silicone or heatshrink sleeving on alternate pins can be used to prevent this, but in my experience even cables from reputable suppliers don't always do this. To be fair though not all applications use power and signal wires in the one connector, so shorts causing real damage aren't always a concern.
 
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